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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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explode the bazaars or e-ticket ride

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into the world of the paranormal

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strap yourself in as we traverse the

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universe exploring the unexplained UFO s

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ghosts Lost Worlds cryptozoology waters

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as well as other dimensions it's time to

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take back the night last night now you

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are electrifying hosts of exploring the

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[Music]

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Morris Trump is that you do you have the

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secret disclosure files we've been

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waiting for Cameron TV everything is

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here for the LSD turn of mind clothes of

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Isis everything Mother Russia has

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requested is here in briefcase brother

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dad sends his regards and the world of

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wishes and we'll be seeing you at the

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next election polling today my goodness

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the briefcase the briefcase it's opening

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in all the information it is it is

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falling out and it will soon be

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available to all of your list go into

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[Music]

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oh that was pretty good you know that

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Tim that was I make a good see secret

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agent yeah yeah yeah next we bring in

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moose and squirrel

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well I got moose right here moose moose

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and squirrel

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right well now we could get serious for

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the rest of the evening right oh yes of

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course I'm serious Tim I know I know I

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always try to put a monkey wrench into

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this note uh any any anything to get to

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Hollywood crowd that's what I say are

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you I'm goin I'm goin for a Tony Award

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what are you what is so what do you what

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do you been up to this week you've been

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busy working on this book with me on the

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cryptozoology the wing weird winged

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wonders yes yes that's right well and

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and it's just you know it's it's kind of

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a little bit of synchronicity there

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because I had previously written an

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article for an Indiana based magazine

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dealing with Oh giant and flying snakes

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that have been seen in Indiana in the

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past so I had already had some of this

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wonderful research right here at my desk

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ready to go for the article for this new

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book well there you go

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hey you know why why do so many weird

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things happen in Indiana oh I don't know

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I guess it's just a weird place well

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what was that there was an old TV show

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was an eerie Indiana area so see they

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they they realized even back in the

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early 80s you know what a strange place

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Indiana is well and you know we were

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just talking earlier today about the

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spiritualist movement and how we were

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going to

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being submitting some material to the

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psychic aid news over there in the UK

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which has been published for I think

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over 80 years now it started out in the

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1930s as a tabloid and that's a very

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shiny glossy color magazine available at

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your local newsstand

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well actually available importance is

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knowable let's be honest there are no

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newsstands my name what ya and anyways

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the spiritualist movement had great

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roots in in Indiana in fact near where

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you live I understand in fact you told

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me that you had visited camped at

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Chesterfield yeah I have the cap

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Chesterfield was in the same county

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where I grew up near I grew up in Elwood

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Indiana and camp Chesterfield was in

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Chesterfield just in the in the same

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County just down the road though I made

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it was I didn't realize it was there

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till I was a teenager and reading fate

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magazine and all those but yeah the

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topic tonight is not spiritualism

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although one of our guests has written

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on the the subject a very good DVD set

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in a book but tonight where we're

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getting into mind control and LSD and

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and not see the secret society is and a

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whole different ballgame and I think

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it's gonna be a very interesting program

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here if we all don't die of the flu by

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the time it's over 0:04 go down anyway

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Tim tell our audience who we will be

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speaking with this evening no definitely

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well tonight as as usual you know

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exploring the bizarre brings in the the

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the best guest of the most fantastic

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people for us to talk to and to learn

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new things for

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and we'll start out with a paul davids

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Paul Jeffrey David's we've known Paul

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for for quite a while and I'm trying to

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remember if we've had him on exploring

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the bazaar before he's he's been on some

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of our previous incarnations of webcast

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but this may be the first time he's been

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on with exploring the bazaar well he's

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on our YouTube channel mr. UFO secret

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files we did an interview with him when

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he was in New York a couple of years ago

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and about the video that he did about

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Forrest J Ackerman and the life on the

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other side right right well and that was

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absolutely absolutely fantastic program

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the life after death project which was

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shown on the Sci Fi Channel yeah

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but tonight we're going to be talking

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about his new book called a blowin

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America's mind and it should be just as

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always a fascinating conversation and

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also joining us tonight is Olaf Phillips

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now it's been on the show before and as

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you know he's a conspiracy researcher

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writer author publisher specializing in

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things like the secret space program

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exotic aircraft high-technology

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mind control all this other fun stuff

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that that were really interested in as

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well

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love is the publisher of paranormal

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magazine which has been around for gosh

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it seems like for forever and you can

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find more about paranormal at paranoia

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magazine at paranoia paranoia magazine

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calm sorry well I think I think we

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should also mention that he has

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contributed to this a book that we just

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published the week or so ago called

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occult secrets of the 3rd right Hitler

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and the SS the untold supernatural

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connection and I want to get into that a

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little bit later on as well well once

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you lead the questioning of Tim and

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let's find out about the CIA

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LSD well yeah well uh Paul uh thank you

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for being with us tonight truly a great

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having you with us

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Tim anybody who can coax me to

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participate in the show at late hours is

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got a magic gift

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I started say seven o'clock there in the

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West Coast that's not that's not yeah

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yeah that's late for me I've been

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keeping some really weird hours but you

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mentioned the name of the new book just

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out blowing America's mind it has a

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subtitle which is a true story of

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Princeton CIA mind control LSD and Zen

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and why Princeton

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well Princeton University is where the

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story is set where my co-author John

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Selby and I went to school and while

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they are majoring in psychology we

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discovered the research program at the

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nearby New Jersey neuropsychiatric

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Institute and our book is it's sort of a

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true-life one and Flew Over the Cuckoo's

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Nest if what happened to us when we

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enrolled as guinea pigs in their

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research program in deep hypnosis and

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LSD all right well now how did you

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enroll I mean did did they put up flyers

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on campus or you know have a classifier

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I had in the classified ad you know you

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would think that something like that it

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would be a little difficult for a

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college student even for Princeton to to

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get involved with well they never told

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you what the goals of the program was

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who was financing it what it was really

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about

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and you mentioned flyers well at

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Princeton on the main thoroughfare it's

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called a Nassau Street they have kiosks

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where students and professors and

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interested parties put up ads for

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anything from a rock concert to a party

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- in this case they were looking for

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subjects to be paid and participate in

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deep hypnosis experience

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and it sounded interesting to me I asked

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around and what I found out that really

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fascinated me was that dr. Humphry

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Osmond was in charge of the program so

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who is Humphry Osmond well if you've

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ever in your life used the word

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psychedelic in any conversation

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that's because Humphry Osmond thought it

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up first he's a psychiatrist originally

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from England then he went to Canada

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where he began experimenting with mind

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manifesting drugs like peyote with the

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Native American church and then he came

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to head up of the Bureau of research at

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the New Jersey neuropsychiatric

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Institute where he was continuing his

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research with the psychedelics

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especially LSD and hypnosis for what he

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called non drug analogues to the

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psychedelic state meaning using deep

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hypnosis to mimic what happens on a trip

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but also and this was the tough part of

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it he was also using hypnosis to mimic

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psychosis hmm so you said we're gonna

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have a guest on tonight who has paranoia

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magazine well they were interested in

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using hypnosis to induce paranoia and

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schizophrenia split personality

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psychological panic they wanted to

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figure out the difference between the

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symptoms of madness psychosis and what

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happens to a person under a psychedelic

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drug so that was the heart of that part

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of MKULTRA what we can talk more about

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MKULTRA which was almost a hundred and

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fifty different research projects

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topsail appalled well what year was what

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a year years are we talking about here

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mainly 1967 although John Selby started

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in 1966 right that's the year

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that LSD was made illegal before that it

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was legal and people like Ken Kesey were

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passing it out in the cities and

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kool-aid the electric kool-aid acid test

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you know everywhere they could go and

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then things were shut down but they

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weren't shut down at the New Jersey

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neuropsychiatric Institute which had a

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healthy supply of Sandoz acid from

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Switzerland courtesy of the CIA this is

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what we did not know at the time that

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the project we're part of was being

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funded by the CIA through a dummy

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corporation as part of their CIA mind

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control experiments they had a lot of

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dummy corporations set up that were

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basically the paymaster's so the money

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couldn't be traced easily back to the

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CIA

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one of the paymaster's here was called

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the Society for the study of human

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ecology which what does that mean I mean

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it means I don't think means anything

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but that was the name they gave it and

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that's whose name was on the checks so

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NIH was also involved National

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Institutes of Health National Institutes

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of mental health there was a lot of

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black there was a lot of their funding

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that was funneled into black research

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projects that were top-secret and how do

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I know this well it all came out about

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10 years after we were part of the

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experiments MKULTRA was exposed

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nationally 1977 or so whether there was

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then the a Senate committee hearing

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about it Ted Kennedy was part of it and

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00:15:39,580 --> 00:15:36,840
the hearing was kind of a whitewash this

275
00:15:43,190 --> 00:15:39,590
stuff had come in into the public

276
00:15:45,830 --> 00:15:43,200
documents had been exposed that Richard

277
00:15:46,910 --> 00:15:45,840
Helms who had headed the CIA previously

278
00:15:50,060 --> 00:15:46,920
had won a destroyed

279
00:15:52,430 --> 00:15:50,070
they weren't destroyed they went public

280
00:15:54,530 --> 00:15:52,440
and it was a tremendous embarrassment to

281
00:15:56,470 --> 00:15:54,540
the CIA and that's when we began to see

282
00:15:59,210 --> 00:15:56,480
the names of our researchers

283
00:16:01,280 --> 00:15:59,220
neuropsychiatric Institute who the

284
00:16:02,460 --> 00:16:01,290
funding parties were what the real

285
00:16:05,970 --> 00:16:02,470
purposes were of

286
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:05,980
we were part of and we also John Selby

287
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:08,410
and I we wrote blowing America's mind

288
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:12,490
together because we lived it together we

289
00:16:18,690 --> 00:16:14,050
also at that point got to see the

290
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:18,700
enormous scope of the CIA's mind control

291
00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:24,490
research they used prisons they used

292
00:16:32,100 --> 00:16:28,000
with so prisoners soldiers patients and

293
00:16:32,850 --> 00:16:32,110
hospitals college students colleges and

294
00:16:35,580 --> 00:16:32,860
universities

295
00:16:38,250 --> 00:16:35,590
and people that they enlisted at private

296
00:16:39,390 --> 00:16:38,260
research centers for their studies of

297
00:16:45,270 --> 00:16:39,400
about a hundred and forty different

298
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:45,280
drugs and then they also experimented on

299
00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:48,130
completely unsuspecting people I mean

300
00:16:54,060 --> 00:16:49,600
and according to one report this

301
00:16:56,130 --> 00:16:54,070
included going into a subway and men

302
00:16:56,910 --> 00:16:56,140
with masks that would protect their

303
00:16:59,010 --> 00:16:56,920
breathing

304
00:17:00,330 --> 00:16:59,020
spraying LSD in the subway in order to

305
00:17:03,630 --> 00:17:00,340
see what would happen to the people that

306
00:17:05,910 --> 00:17:03,640
were passengers the rogue renegade

307
00:17:09,510 --> 00:17:05,920
operation that went on for many many

308
00:17:11,460 --> 00:17:09,520
years and they justified it in cold war

309
00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:11,470
terms because Russia was doing that kind

310
00:17:17,069 --> 00:17:15,280
of research and then there was the brain

311
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:17,079
could the the might and what it would

312
00:17:23,540 --> 00:17:18,850
think they call it brainwashing they

313
00:17:26,550 --> 00:17:23,550
called it out of North Korea Korean War

314
00:17:28,590 --> 00:17:26,560
so you know they took advantage of the

315
00:17:30,780 --> 00:17:28,600
public and we just walked right into it

316
00:17:34,020 --> 00:17:30,790
John Selby and I as unsuspecting guinea

317
00:17:37,410 --> 00:17:34,030
pigs and the book is our true account

318
00:17:41,370 --> 00:17:37,420
blowing America's mind get you inside

319
00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:41,380
our skin as you live what we lived and

320
00:17:45,330 --> 00:17:43,510
you know we used all the real names

321
00:17:47,820 --> 00:17:45,340
they're all dead now we can use all the

322
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:47,830
real names we we waited until everybody

323
00:17:56,580 --> 00:17:53,290
was dead well how did they keep track of

324
00:17:58,950 --> 00:17:56,590
your okay so you would go somewhere and

325
00:18:02,640 --> 00:17:58,960
you you knew that you were being given

326
00:18:04,890 --> 00:18:02,650
the drugs correct they didn't always

327
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:04,900
tell us that we were given a drug and

328
00:18:11,010 --> 00:18:07,090
sometimes it was a placebo because they

329
00:18:12,540 --> 00:18:11,020
had a control group too so you didn't

330
00:18:15,660 --> 00:18:12,550
know or they wouldn't necessarily tell

331
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:15,670
you that it was hypnosis plus a drug but

332
00:18:19,669 --> 00:18:16,090
it was

333
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:19,679
always hypnosis that began with training

334
00:18:26,460 --> 00:18:22,960
training to teach you to go under very

335
00:18:30,060 --> 00:18:26,470
very deep hypnosis training to teach you

336
00:18:33,390 --> 00:18:30,070
to be responsive to a trigger word which

337
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:33,400
would induce the trance once you were

338
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:37,210
relaxed in a in one of the hypnosis

339
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:39,970
chairs in these hypnosis rooms they

340
00:18:48,930 --> 00:18:46,090
called cells and they erased memory

341
00:18:51,930 --> 00:18:48,940
they gave hypnotic conditions the

342
00:18:55,950 --> 00:18:51,940
changed perception of reality for hours

343
00:18:58,320 --> 00:18:55,960
at a time they would wake you up when

344
00:19:00,630 --> 00:18:58,330
you are under a condition you'd walk

345
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:00,640
around that we people taking notes on

346
00:19:04,889 --> 00:19:02,770
your behavior or asking you questions

347
00:19:07,130 --> 00:19:04,899
but they would have changed your reality

348
00:19:10,049 --> 00:19:07,140
in a fundamental way during those hours

349
00:19:11,430 --> 00:19:10,059
then before they would bring you out of

350
00:19:13,289 --> 00:19:11,440
it they would erase your memory of what

351
00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:13,299
had happened or in the previous few

352
00:19:19,889 --> 00:19:17,110
hours so it sounds incredible that they

353
00:19:22,110 --> 00:19:19,899
could really erase your memory of what

354
00:19:25,980 --> 00:19:22,120
had happened during you know the same

355
00:19:28,769 --> 00:19:25,990
afternoon tone but with sufficient

356
00:19:31,620 --> 00:19:28,779
training that happens you have to

357
00:19:35,399 --> 00:19:31,630
appreciate that hypnosis can even be

358
00:19:38,730 --> 00:19:35,409
used as an anaesthetic if it's used by

359
00:19:41,010 --> 00:19:38,740
people who know how to induce the state

360
00:19:44,730 --> 00:19:41,020
in people who are susceptible to going

361
00:19:46,019 --> 00:19:44,740
under it can be very very strong so I

362
00:19:50,190 --> 00:19:46,029
think one of the most interesting things

363
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:50,200
about our book particularly what

364
00:19:57,389 --> 00:19:54,570
happened to my co-author John Selby who

365
00:19:59,820 --> 00:19:57,399
had been a subject for over a year when

366
00:20:02,240 --> 00:19:59,830
I got into the program he was being

367
00:20:05,279 --> 00:20:02,250
elevated to being a training hypnotist

368
00:20:07,230 --> 00:20:05,289
he was assigned to be my hypnotist at

369
00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:07,240
the beginning to teach me to go under

370
00:20:15,590 --> 00:20:12,370
and during that time he was having an

371
00:20:18,930 --> 00:20:15,600
enormous psychological crisis from

372
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:18,940
hypnotic conditions from the memory

373
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:21,610
blockage from some of the things that

374
00:20:29,070 --> 00:20:24,010
they had done to him under conditions

375
00:20:29,970 --> 00:20:29,080
that did involve drugs so listen we've

376
00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:29,980
been at work

377
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:33,130
on this Tim and Tim for literally

378
00:20:39,810 --> 00:20:36,370
decades we started it a couple of years

379
00:20:43,710 --> 00:20:39,820
after we were at the Institute and had

380
00:20:46,260 --> 00:20:43,720
these experiences and weren't able to

381
00:20:50,130 --> 00:20:46,270
finish it then we tried to finish it

382
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:50,140
when MKULTRA was exposed and we kept at

383
00:20:56,549 --> 00:20:53,650
it through the years but then without

384
00:20:59,909 --> 00:20:56,559
finishing at John Selby and I went to

385
00:21:03,720 --> 00:20:59,919
different directions he became sort of a

386
00:21:06,900 --> 00:21:03,730
world traveler and writer first of

387
00:21:10,289 --> 00:21:06,910
fiction and later of popular psychology

388
00:21:12,390 --> 00:21:10,299
and I went to the American Film

389
00:21:16,230 --> 00:21:12,400
Institute Center for Advanced Film

390
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:16,240
Studies and got into the entertainment

391
00:21:21,230 --> 00:21:18,850
business and in Hollywood starting

392
00:21:24,510 --> 00:21:21,240
working with a very famous agent and

393
00:21:27,270 --> 00:21:24,520
then on to the Transformers TV show the

394
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:27,280
animated cartoons then was involved with

395
00:21:34,380 --> 00:21:31,450
Star Wars intensely with writing six of

396
00:21:37,740 --> 00:21:34,390
the sequel books for Lucasfilm and then

397
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:37,750
making Roswell then making about ten

398
00:21:45,900 --> 00:21:40,450
other independent films one or one every

399
00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:45,910
year or so so including one Timothy

400
00:21:50,820 --> 00:21:48,880
Leary yes it was one of the first and

401
00:21:53,100 --> 00:21:50,830
that's a very important thing to bring

402
00:21:57,360 --> 00:21:53,110
up the connection because that film

403
00:21:59,370 --> 00:21:57,370
which you can find online I think the

404
00:22:01,020 --> 00:21:59,380
DVD is still out there it may be out

405
00:22:02,610 --> 00:22:01,030
there for streaming too I'm not sure on

406
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:02,620
that but it's called Timothy Leary's

407
00:22:10,590 --> 00:22:07,090
dead like the moody blue song so yeah

408
00:22:14,820 --> 00:22:10,600
about 20 years after these experiences

409
00:22:19,380 --> 00:22:14,830
at the Institute I got to know Timothy

410
00:22:20,100 --> 00:22:19,390
Leary quite intensely during the last

411
00:22:23,730 --> 00:22:20,110
year of his life

412
00:22:25,169 --> 00:22:23,740
his publisher sent me to him and the

413
00:22:28,950 --> 00:22:25,179
fact that I had worked with Humphry

414
00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:28,960
Osmond who he was associated with you

415
00:22:36,830 --> 00:22:33,510
know was a plus for letting me make a a

416
00:22:39,270 --> 00:22:36,840
biographical feature film about his life

417
00:22:40,630 --> 00:22:39,280
as he was dying the last year of his

418
00:22:46,060 --> 00:22:40,640
life

419
00:22:50,130 --> 00:22:46,070
different dimensions but blowing

420
00:22:52,590 --> 00:22:50,140
America's mind the latest book which I

421
00:22:58,030 --> 00:22:52,600
think your listeners will find

422
00:23:01,780 --> 00:22:58,040
fascinating and very very readable that

423
00:23:04,030 --> 00:23:01,790
waited until the end of 2017 for us to

424
00:23:06,010 --> 00:23:04,040
actually complete and for it to make

425
00:23:07,990 --> 00:23:06,020
print and of course it's both print in

426
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:08,000
an e-book you can find it in any you

427
00:23:17,350 --> 00:23:12,290
know those any any any chance a video

428
00:23:21,610 --> 00:23:17,360
might spin-off movie a movie yes there

429
00:23:24,220 --> 00:23:21,620
there is I mean we haven't begun to

430
00:23:26,140 --> 00:23:24,230
solicit the interest in LA yet but that

431
00:23:28,900 --> 00:23:26,150
process actually is gonna start next

432
00:23:32,740 --> 00:23:28,910
week we'll see they have to see if

433
00:23:37,419 --> 00:23:32,750
there's somebody who intensely wants to

434
00:23:38,919 --> 00:23:37,429
make it and it will just well see that's

435
00:23:40,270 --> 00:23:38,929
the way it is with every project you

436
00:23:41,789 --> 00:23:40,280
know you put things out there and you

437
00:23:44,020 --> 00:23:41,799
you never know where it's destined

438
00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:44,030
Roswell took like four years of

439
00:23:48,789 --> 00:23:46,370
rejections to finally get made It's

440
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:48,799
Showtime some of the best well we have

441
00:23:54,580 --> 00:23:51,890
our first break coming up and we'll be

442
00:23:56,260 --> 00:23:54,590
back in a couple of minutes and we'll be

443
00:23:59,169 --> 00:23:56,270
bringing in our next guest and we want

444
00:24:03,280 --> 00:23:59,179
to talk to him about the the not season

445
00:24:06,190 --> 00:24:03,290
in mind control and how this all ties in

446
00:24:13,860 --> 00:24:06,200
with this big schema things to control

447
00:24:20,590 --> 00:24:18,010
now back to exploring the bazaar with

448
00:24:23,890 --> 00:24:20,600
two of the most electrifying researchers

449
00:24:36,490 --> 00:24:23,900
in the Paranoid your hosts Timothy Becca

450
00:24:41,020 --> 00:24:36,500
Lee and 2pac hard drive and this is

451
00:24:43,210 --> 00:24:41,030
Belle WikiLeaks song I am a hack hack

452
00:24:46,090 --> 00:24:43,220
hard drive make that professor - you

453
00:24:49,810 --> 00:24:46,100
hack hard drive remember my name I got

454
00:24:52,780 --> 00:24:49,820
lots of Fame I'm hack hack hard right my

455
00:24:56,110 --> 00:24:52,790
professor hat hard drive and now I'm all

456
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:56,120
locked up Julian if they threw me in

457
00:24:59,470 --> 00:24:56,570
jail

458
00:25:02,620 --> 00:24:59,480
they think I'm clean out of luck I

459
00:25:05,770 --> 00:25:02,630
hacked the wrong hard drives and the

460
00:25:09,550 --> 00:25:05,780
files that I took well they're all

461
00:25:12,970 --> 00:25:09,560
filled with secrets come on have a look

462
00:25:16,630 --> 00:25:12,980
hey Julian my friend you're on a very

463
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:16,640
very tough road but I've got two million

464
00:25:24,540 --> 00:25:21,530
secrets ready for you to upload UFOs and

465
00:25:28,750 --> 00:25:24,550
chemtrails and lots of voter fraud to

466
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:28,760
Fukushima and plutonium now held Diablo

467
00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:30,770
is through

468
00:25:37,900 --> 00:25:34,130
Ron they've got the bomb do not wait to

469
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:37,910
detonate CIA controls your mind

470
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:41,410
Columbine it's not so fine 9/11

471
00:25:48,550 --> 00:25:45,050
implosion nothing is as it seems

472
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:48,560
and Spira seas are not sad this world is

473
00:25:55,300 --> 00:25:52,850
full of bad dreams alright welcome back

474
00:25:58,300 --> 00:25:55,310
to exploring the bizarre and that was

475
00:26:00,790 --> 00:25:58,310
hack hard drive that's a good friend of

476
00:26:03,610 --> 00:26:00,800
yours I Paul yeah that's one of my alter

477
00:26:07,180 --> 00:26:03,620
egos too you know somewhere along the

478
00:26:09,910 --> 00:26:07,190
way I was in studio with Brian Lambert

479
00:26:14,650 --> 00:26:09,920
who composed the scores for three my

480
00:26:16,750 --> 00:26:14,660
films and we started you know just

481
00:26:18,700 --> 00:26:16,760
fooling around and what came out of

482
00:26:22,060 --> 00:26:18,710
those sessions was the personality of

483
00:26:25,180 --> 00:26:22,070
Professor hack hard drive so I did a

484
00:26:29,860 --> 00:26:25,190
whole bunch of hack hard drive songs and

485
00:26:32,140 --> 00:26:29,870
the WikiLeaks song in that one you you

486
00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:32,150
hear a car drive is in jail and he's

487
00:26:36,130 --> 00:26:34,130
singing to Julian Assange as he's

488
00:26:41,370 --> 00:26:36,140
getting ready to send Julian somehow

489
00:26:50,110 --> 00:26:45,910
and will after each break Tonight Show

490
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:50,120
will play a different harddrive song oh

491
00:26:56,590 --> 00:26:53,090
great well that one that one is like a

492
00:26:58,800 --> 00:26:56,600
wet dream for conspiracy that's why what

493
00:27:01,600 --> 00:26:58,810
did that one first

494
00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:01,610
well Tim what do we what do we bring

495
00:27:07,470 --> 00:27:04,130
Olaf Phillips into the conversation now

496
00:27:11,230 --> 00:27:07,480
I know he's been patiently waiting for

497
00:27:18,100 --> 00:27:11,240
for his chance for hit for his day in

498
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:21,470
well we'll get him to reveal all the

499
00:27:26,269 --> 00:27:24,210
secrets well maybe maybe maybe some

500
00:27:30,409 --> 00:27:26,279
psilocybin that's a little easier on the

501
00:27:32,450 --> 00:27:30,419
system well you know I have to say I've

502
00:27:35,659 --> 00:27:32,460
never been much for psychedelics my

503
00:27:39,710 --> 00:27:35,669
myself but the one time that I did do

504
00:27:41,479 --> 00:27:39,720
LSD I saw Jimi Hendrix perform oh you

505
00:27:43,639 --> 00:27:41,489
know what and you know what I said I

506
00:27:47,330 --> 00:27:43,649
said to myself I don't think I need to

507
00:27:49,159 --> 00:27:47,340
go any further with this I mean it was

508
00:27:53,210 --> 00:27:49,169
as far as I'm concerned it was the

509
00:27:57,139 --> 00:27:53,220
ultimate experience it was a good it was

510
00:27:59,119 --> 00:27:57,149
a fairly decent trip and you know the

511
00:28:02,180 --> 00:27:59,129
notes the the colored notes came out of

512
00:28:04,009 --> 00:28:02,190
the speakers and it was the music just

513
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:04,019
the whaled and it took me to another

514
00:28:11,450 --> 00:28:08,330
dimension and I said well you know like

515
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:11,460
the this is this is as far as I want to

516
00:28:17,349 --> 00:28:14,970
go with it and so that is the force it's

517
00:28:21,109 --> 00:28:17,359
not going to get any better than this

518
00:28:23,989 --> 00:28:21,119
you know and of course you know we kind

519
00:28:26,090 --> 00:28:23,999
of seen the the full circle here of

520
00:28:28,099 --> 00:28:26,100
course marijuana was big when I was a

521
00:28:30,619 --> 00:28:28,109
kid and then it was outlawed and illegal

522
00:28:34,820 --> 00:28:30,629
and people were thrown in jail and now

523
00:28:37,029 --> 00:28:34,830
it's recreational and medical and and

524
00:28:41,810 --> 00:28:37,039
all that so we we do seem to be

525
00:28:46,820 --> 00:28:41,820
loosening up the tabs somewhat I don't

526
00:28:48,940 --> 00:28:46,830
know do you think Paul that the LSD will

527
00:28:53,539 --> 00:28:48,950
ever be made illegal again they're

528
00:28:58,220 --> 00:28:53,549
tested well yeah you gotta move the

529
00:29:00,139 --> 00:28:58,230
government to get to get a change of any

530
00:29:03,289 --> 00:29:00,149
kind don't you or the federal government

531
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:03,299
well they don't seem to be able to agree

532
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:05,850
on funding the country or who's a

533
00:29:12,139 --> 00:29:08,730
citizen or which countries where to go

534
00:29:14,479 --> 00:29:12,149
to war with or what kind or what

535
00:29:16,279 --> 00:29:14,489
bathroom you could use what bathroom Tim

536
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:16,289
you know there's a little bit a number

537
00:29:21,259 --> 00:29:17,970
of bathrooms you can use Tim given your

538
00:29:23,509 --> 00:29:21,269
state of affairs you know new york new

539
00:29:25,220 --> 00:29:23,519
york we have usually the bathrooms

540
00:29:27,289 --> 00:29:25,230
anybody could use them you know because

541
00:29:29,210 --> 00:29:27,299
nobody's gonna put in nobody's gonna

542
00:29:31,460 --> 00:29:29,220
spend the money to put into it three you

543
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:31,470
know i mean so it the one

544
00:29:36,470 --> 00:29:35,130
once one fits all so to speak but yeah

545
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:36,480
alright well that's because it's New

546
00:29:41,690 --> 00:29:38,130
York but you asked a serious question

547
00:29:43,279 --> 00:29:41,700
and my serious answer would be I hope so

548
00:29:45,230 --> 00:29:43,289
I don't think it ever should have been

549
00:29:49,159 --> 00:29:45,240
made illegal in the first place and I

550
00:29:50,630 --> 00:29:49,169
mean they not only took it away from the

551
00:29:53,690 --> 00:29:50,640
public they took it away from the

552
00:29:58,070 --> 00:29:53,700
scientists doctors researchers who were

553
00:30:01,460 --> 00:29:58,080
doing constructive work with it and you

554
00:30:03,860 --> 00:30:01,470
know and Humphrey Osmonds work probably

555
00:30:07,070 --> 00:30:03,870
comes under that category I mean he

556
00:30:08,870 --> 00:30:07,080
wasn't an evil person in the experiments

557
00:30:11,299 --> 00:30:08,880
he was doing he had legitimate purposes

558
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:11,309
we just didn't know that by being part

559
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:13,770
of it that there would be the good trips

560
00:30:20,630 --> 00:30:18,210
and the very bad trips well let me let

561
00:30:22,610 --> 00:30:20,640
me ask all of this now you worked on

562
00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:22,620
this a book with us the occult secrets

563
00:30:28,190 --> 00:30:25,289
of the third right which just came out

564
00:30:31,549 --> 00:30:28,200
what what is the history of mind-control

565
00:30:34,279 --> 00:30:31,559
I mean are are you it are you familiar

566
00:30:36,260 --> 00:30:34,289
with how this all got started I mean was

567
00:30:43,419 --> 00:30:36,270
it the Germans that started mind-control

568
00:30:45,190 --> 00:30:43,429
he does it go back before that hola hola

569
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:45,200
are you there

570
00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:48,090
could we lose him we got him under my

571
00:30:58,720 --> 00:30:51,510
control C that CIA has moved in quickly

572
00:31:04,909 --> 00:31:02,570
mind control in German well yeah when

573
00:31:06,860 --> 00:31:04,919
did my control start I mean who came up

574
00:31:09,919 --> 00:31:06,870
with the concept that we could control

575
00:31:11,419 --> 00:31:09,929
up to other people's minds well I would

576
00:31:13,580 --> 00:31:11,429
argue to you that it probably started in

577
00:31:16,789 --> 00:31:13,590
the 19th century because you know you

578
00:31:19,399 --> 00:31:16,799
had a lot of hypnotist you know in that

579
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:19,409
time you had a lot of people of sperm

580
00:31:25,610 --> 00:31:22,530
experiment in various kinds of drugs in

581
00:31:29,090 --> 00:31:25,620
the in the earlier part of them you know

582
00:31:31,340 --> 00:31:29,100
it's the 20th century in the late 19th

583
00:31:33,159 --> 00:31:31,350
century so I would say probably then the

584
00:31:35,740 --> 00:31:33,169
Germans did do a lot of experiments

585
00:31:38,510 --> 00:31:35,750
especially at the concentration camps

586
00:31:41,450 --> 00:31:38,520
where they would I mean they did a lot

587
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:41,460
of experiments across the board there

588
00:31:45,220 --> 00:31:44,010
were you know atrocities but they they

589
00:31:48,220 --> 00:31:45,230
definitely experimented

590
00:31:50,350 --> 00:31:48,230
various kinds of drugs you know in

591
00:31:53,740 --> 00:31:50,360
artificial blood and all kinds of crazy

592
00:31:55,510 --> 00:31:53,750
stuff and what were they through the use

593
00:31:56,190 --> 00:31:55,520
of mind-control what were they trying to

594
00:31:59,260 --> 00:31:56,200
do

595
00:32:01,419 --> 00:31:59,270
where were they using using mind control

596
00:32:04,990 --> 00:32:01,429
on their own troops as well did you to

597
00:32:07,180 --> 00:32:05,000
get them to be superhuman not that I'm

598
00:32:08,620 --> 00:32:07,190
aware of I think for the most part their

599
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:08,630
own troops are pretty bought into the

600
00:32:14,350 --> 00:32:11,690
ideology they kind of brain what I mean

601
00:32:16,090 --> 00:32:14,360
they did a lot of not so much like mind

602
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:16,100
control per se like drug-induced mind

603
00:32:22,630 --> 00:32:18,410
control I mean you do see you know

604
00:32:24,669 --> 00:32:22,640
massive propaganda and that kind of you

605
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:24,679
know mass scale

606
00:32:31,299 --> 00:32:27,650
brainwashing I think they did do a lot

607
00:32:33,250 --> 00:32:31,309
of brainwashing but I wouldn't say like

608
00:32:35,650 --> 00:32:33,260
straight mind-control like an MKULTRA

609
00:32:37,750 --> 00:32:35,660
kind of mind-control not that I'm aware

610
00:32:40,510 --> 00:32:37,760
of that doesn't mean it didn't happen I

611
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:40,520
mean but you know in the case of their

612
00:32:44,860 --> 00:32:43,010
experimentation they experimented across

613
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:44,870
the board I mean they used to they used

614
00:32:49,450 --> 00:32:46,970
to taking people from the concentration

615
00:32:51,070 --> 00:32:49,460
camps put them in vests and hang them

616
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:51,080
from the ceiling like they were in a

617
00:32:54,220 --> 00:32:52,730
parachute and then they would mess

618
00:32:55,990 --> 00:32:54,230
around with air pressure to see when

619
00:32:57,789 --> 00:32:56,000
they would you know there when they

620
00:33:00,130 --> 00:32:57,799
would die so that they could see how

621
00:33:02,049 --> 00:33:00,140
high they could push the loot off of

622
00:33:04,810 --> 00:33:02,059
pilots before they would die so they

623
00:33:06,940 --> 00:33:04,820
were doing on inmates and concentration

624
00:33:08,289 --> 00:33:06,950
camp victims before you know they would

625
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:08,299
go out to the Luftwaffe and say well

626
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:10,570
your ceiling is now eleven thousand feet

627
00:33:16,539 --> 00:33:12,880
so they did some pretty horrific stuff

628
00:33:18,250 --> 00:33:16,549
now did did the the mind control we of

629
00:33:20,380 --> 00:33:18,260
course the movie The Manchurian the

630
00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:20,390
candidate was was popular they still

631
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:24,049
play it on oh yeah on TV and all and of

632
00:33:31,570 --> 00:33:27,610
course I was a guest that many times on

633
00:33:34,390 --> 00:33:31,580
the long genival show and kandi Jones's

634
00:33:36,850 --> 00:33:34,400
fifth wife was the was the hosts that

635
00:33:38,830 --> 00:33:36,860
the you know after he got very ill and

636
00:33:42,130 --> 00:33:38,840
would only occasionally come on the air

637
00:33:47,350 --> 00:33:42,140
and there's a book out about her where

638
00:33:48,490 --> 00:33:47,360
supposedly she was used as a I guess

639
00:33:51,190 --> 00:33:48,500
what what is the word that I'm looking

640
00:33:53,470 --> 00:33:51,200
for spire add she was induced to do

641
00:33:57,039 --> 00:33:53,480
these things on their mind like a

642
00:33:59,169 --> 00:33:57,049
courier you know it's something she

643
00:34:03,269 --> 00:33:59,179
never she never really talked about this

644
00:34:05,469 --> 00:34:03,279
in fact I didn't really know about her

645
00:34:07,659 --> 00:34:05,479
involvement in this and of course some

646
00:34:10,359 --> 00:34:07,669
people say well the whole incident was

647
00:34:12,909 --> 00:34:10,369
you know a made up it was Long John

648
00:34:14,919 --> 00:34:12,919
trying to be a hypnotist and well I

649
00:34:16,599 --> 00:34:14,929
don't know I can't say because we talked

650
00:34:18,609 --> 00:34:16,609
about a lot of other things on the air

651
00:34:20,980 --> 00:34:18,619
but we never discuss we never really

652
00:34:22,269 --> 00:34:20,990
discussed mind control and I guess if I

653
00:34:24,539 --> 00:34:22,279
had known about it I would have brought

654
00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:24,549
it up but it wasn't something that

655
00:34:30,099 --> 00:34:27,169
particularly interested me and I don't

656
00:34:34,210 --> 00:34:30,109
think he got a lot of attention at the

657
00:34:37,240 --> 00:34:34,220
the time but now the Korean War I guess

658
00:34:39,250 --> 00:34:37,250
was more heavily involved in mind

659
00:34:42,240 --> 00:34:39,260
control by both sides is that correct

660
00:34:44,879 --> 00:34:42,250
right that's correct

661
00:34:47,349 --> 00:34:44,889
Walter Bart wrote a book called

662
00:34:49,659 --> 00:34:47,359
Operation mind control you know where he

663
00:34:51,369 --> 00:34:49,669
gets into that kind of stuff about the

664
00:34:56,740 --> 00:34:51,379
trauma-based mind control one house and

665
00:34:59,799 --> 00:34:56,750
those things are done in the toward the

666
00:35:01,720 --> 00:34:59,809
end of that book by beau art he has an

667
00:35:03,190 --> 00:35:01,730
index where he lists a hundred and

668
00:35:05,049 --> 00:35:03,200
thirty-nine different drugs that they

669
00:35:08,019 --> 00:35:05,059
were experimenting with under MKULTRA

670
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:08,029
and if I could just jump in for just a

671
00:35:13,450 --> 00:35:09,890
second because MKULTRA did sort of take

672
00:35:16,059 --> 00:35:13,460
off in the early 1950s and went deep

673
00:35:19,180 --> 00:35:16,069
into the 1970s but some of their

674
00:35:21,700 --> 00:35:19,190
objectives you know they were very

675
00:35:24,220 --> 00:35:21,710
interested in finding a drug which could

676
00:35:25,210 --> 00:35:24,230
cause enemy soldiers to decide to just

677
00:35:27,670 --> 00:35:25,220
lay down their weapons on the

678
00:35:29,589 --> 00:35:27,680
battlefield and stop fighting and that

679
00:35:32,559 --> 00:35:29,599
was one of the things that they were

680
00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:32,569
thinking about for LSD could it do that

681
00:35:36,849 --> 00:35:34,640
and they they did army experiments and

682
00:35:38,370 --> 00:35:36,859
they found that absolutely soldiers

683
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:38,380
would disobey orders

684
00:35:44,380 --> 00:35:40,490
they wouldn't even pay any attention to

685
00:35:47,170 --> 00:35:44,390
orders when they were under the

686
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:47,180
influence there was that and then there

687
00:35:54,059 --> 00:35:49,490
was also their desire to find the magic

688
00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:54,069
bullet let's say that could cause

689
00:36:01,420 --> 00:35:58,130
retiring CIA agents who had a lot of

690
00:36:03,220 --> 00:36:01,430
classified knowledge to have their

691
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:03,230
memories wiped clean you know like

692
00:36:09,609 --> 00:36:07,490
wiping at a hard drive and so that they

693
00:36:11,079 --> 00:36:09,619
wouldn't remember the information once

694
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:11,089
they retired that was another of their

695
00:36:15,460 --> 00:36:12,170
goals

696
00:36:18,660 --> 00:36:15,470
well also interrogation you know

697
00:36:21,610 --> 00:36:18,670
something like operation midnight climax

698
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:21,620
you know they would it was a CIA

699
00:36:26,980 --> 00:36:24,290
operated brothel and they would get to

700
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:26,990
John's and it kind of devolved later

701
00:36:32,290 --> 00:36:29,570
into more of a sex warfare kind of

702
00:36:35,020 --> 00:36:32,300
situation but you know initially the

703
00:36:37,330 --> 00:36:35,030
logic was unbelievable sprinkles and ran

704
00:36:39,010 --> 00:36:37,340
it but the logic was they bring these

705
00:36:41,650 --> 00:36:39,020
guys in and then they'd offer them water

706
00:36:43,180 --> 00:36:41,660
and the water was spiked with LSD and

707
00:36:44,980 --> 00:36:43,190
then you know they were observing

708
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:44,990
through a two-way mirror and once the

709
00:36:49,630 --> 00:36:47,210
John was tripping then they would come

710
00:36:51,430 --> 00:36:49,640
in and interrogate him to see if they

711
00:36:54,550 --> 00:36:51,440
could you know get information out of

712
00:36:55,870 --> 00:36:54,560
him and you know how lucid was he you

713
00:36:57,970 --> 00:36:55,880
know from what I've read it didn't work

714
00:36:59,650 --> 00:36:57,980
so good and I you know they also

715
00:37:04,290 --> 00:36:59,660
definitely try to use it as an

716
00:37:09,070 --> 00:37:04,300
interrogation tool oh well uh what about

717
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:09,080
a project paperclip I mean were any of

718
00:37:16,390 --> 00:37:12,170
the scientists that were brought over at

719
00:37:19,150 --> 00:37:16,400
the end of the war I mean were they and

720
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:19,160
their their knowledge used by the the

721
00:37:25,030 --> 00:37:22,330
CIA in the early MKULTRA developments

722
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:25,040
the name the name escape st. Paul

723
00:37:28,570 --> 00:37:26,810
actually probably knows them but the

724
00:37:31,300 --> 00:37:28,580
name escapes me offhand but there were a

725
00:37:32,550 --> 00:37:31,310
couple they were brought in to do that

726
00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:32,560
kind of stuff

727
00:37:37,090 --> 00:37:34,730
you have to remember is that when they

728
00:37:39,730 --> 00:37:37,100
did paperclip you know it was a race to

729
00:37:42,100 --> 00:37:39,740
stop the Soviets from doing the same

730
00:37:44,620 --> 00:37:42,110
thing and you know so they pretty much

731
00:37:46,150 --> 00:37:44,630
just went and got all the you know that

732
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:46,160
kind of nasty people they could find

733
00:37:49,780 --> 00:37:48,170
that that had the information that they

734
00:37:51,850 --> 00:37:49,790
wanted her the knowledge they pretty

735
00:37:53,770 --> 00:37:51,860
much just scooped them all up so if

736
00:37:55,570 --> 00:37:53,780
there was somebody doing experiments in

737
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:55,580
the mind-control there was somebody you

738
00:37:58,960 --> 00:37:57,170
know experimenting with various kinds of

739
00:38:00,880 --> 00:37:58,970
drugs and interrogation and other things

740
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:00,890
they definitely picked him up there

741
00:38:05,170 --> 00:38:03,290
there too that I seem to remember that

742
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:05,180
they were doing more like interrogation

743
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:08,090
stuff but their names escape me off him

744
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:11,810
there was Sidney Gottlieb dr. Gottlieb

745
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:13,850
yeah he was put in charge of the program

746
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:15,370
by Richard Helms

747
00:38:23,260 --> 00:38:20,450
Helms became head of the CIA around the

748
00:38:25,799 --> 00:38:23,270
mid 1960s he had resurrected some of the

749
00:38:28,799 --> 00:38:25,809
MKULTRA projects that

750
00:38:32,309 --> 00:38:28,809
that they had begun to let gather dust

751
00:38:35,449 --> 00:38:32,319
and he pointed he appointed dr. Sidney

752
00:38:38,429 --> 00:38:35,459
Gottlieb as head of all the MKULTRA

753
00:38:41,969 --> 00:38:38,439
projects and it becomes a very

754
00:38:44,759 --> 00:38:41,979
interesting story we you know in blowing

755
00:38:47,849 --> 00:38:44,769
America's mind the history of all this

756
00:38:49,319 --> 00:38:47,859
is its peripheral to it because we're

757
00:38:51,599 --> 00:38:49,329
mainly telling our personal story of

758
00:38:53,910 --> 00:38:51,609
what it was like to have been part of it

759
00:38:56,609 --> 00:38:53,920
when we were at Princeton and and

760
00:38:57,959 --> 00:38:56,619
Princeton and Columbia University and a

761
00:38:59,789 --> 00:38:57,969
Harvard University where all

762
00:39:03,420 --> 00:38:59,799
universities that were used for some of

763
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:03,430
these experiments but you know at the

764
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:05,170
beginning and then the and then the

765
00:39:10,170 --> 00:39:07,930
epilogue we deal with some of those

766
00:39:13,259 --> 00:39:10,180
facts that came out later that for

767
00:39:15,539 --> 00:39:13,269
example that Richard Helms had ordered

768
00:39:19,650 --> 00:39:15,549
all the documents on MKULTRA to be

769
00:39:22,259 --> 00:39:19,660
destroyed and they weren't and nobody

770
00:39:25,079 --> 00:39:22,269
knows why or who arranged for that but

771
00:39:28,309 --> 00:39:25,089
there were 20 boxes of documents on

772
00:39:32,429 --> 00:39:28,319
MKULTRA which doesn't cover everything

773
00:39:35,099 --> 00:39:32,439
by no means but it gave a huge window

774
00:39:38,939 --> 00:39:35,109
into the whole scope of the project once

775
00:39:41,039 --> 00:39:38,949
those documents were discovered and they

776
00:39:42,870 --> 00:39:41,049
were all in boxes mislabeled as

777
00:39:46,620 --> 00:39:42,880
financial documents for some other

778
00:39:51,689 --> 00:39:46,630
project so it wasn't until Helms was out

779
00:39:55,919 --> 00:39:51,699
at the CIA helm said lied to Congress in

780
00:39:59,219 --> 00:39:55,929
the iran-contra situation he was

781
00:40:06,419 --> 00:39:59,229
severely punished by Congress I mean he

782
00:40:08,849 --> 00:40:06,429
was given a $1,500 fine oh he was out at

783
00:40:11,910 --> 00:40:08,859
the CIA persona non-grata and then

784
00:40:18,419 --> 00:40:11,920
income Stansfield Turner I think was a

785
00:40:21,359 --> 00:40:18,429
Navy admiral yeah oh and Carter the

786
00:40:30,259 --> 00:40:21,369
President Carter was a Navy man and and

787
00:40:34,799 --> 00:40:30,269
brought him in so Stansfield Turner's

788
00:40:36,539 --> 00:40:34,809
goal was to sort of wash his hands of

789
00:40:39,150 --> 00:40:36,549
all the stuff once it came out and said

790
00:40:39,690 --> 00:40:39,160
look this wasn't our CIA that did this

791
00:40:41,579 --> 00:40:39,700
we

792
00:40:44,460 --> 00:40:41,589
it's stopped it's not happening anymore

793
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:44,470
we'll try to prove that one do you

794
00:40:51,599 --> 00:40:48,690
believe that oh ha with your research no

795
00:40:54,059 --> 00:40:51,609
no and actually what's interesting when

796
00:40:55,470 --> 00:40:54,069
you were talking about the documents you

797
00:40:58,230 --> 00:40:55,480
know obviously I have some of an

798
00:41:00,120 --> 00:40:58,240
interest my my editor is actually the

799
00:41:04,349 --> 00:41:00,130
one who does most of the mind control

800
00:41:07,589 --> 00:41:04,359
stuff but I came across a Lycan index

801
00:41:10,620 --> 00:41:07,599
word has every single MKULTRA

802
00:41:12,750 --> 00:41:10,630
sub-project I think for the most part a

803
00:41:14,970 --> 00:41:12,760
lot a lot of the people that that ran it

804
00:41:17,190 --> 00:41:14,980
they're redacted but it has the

805
00:41:19,859 --> 00:41:17,200
summaries it has the drugs that they

806
00:41:21,270 --> 00:41:19,869
used I mean has everything and it shows

807
00:41:23,490 --> 00:41:21,280
you you know when you're talking about

808
00:41:25,319 --> 00:41:23,500
these things were mislabeled and never

809
00:41:27,539 --> 00:41:25,329
destroyed you know the fact that

810
00:41:30,750 --> 00:41:27,549
somebody put that summary table I mean

811
00:41:32,370 --> 00:41:30,760
that's like a map to MKULTRA somebody

812
00:41:33,930 --> 00:41:32,380
put this in a box in this label bit I

813
00:41:35,690 --> 00:41:33,940
mean you know you have to wonder that

814
00:41:38,010 --> 00:41:35,700
there's some sort of thought behind that

815
00:41:39,780 --> 00:41:38,020
yeah somebody definitely was thinking

816
00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:39,790
about this because that if you're going

817
00:41:44,460 --> 00:41:42,730
to destroy anything destroy the indexes

818
00:41:46,289 --> 00:41:44,470
destroy the things they tell you what

819
00:41:50,069 --> 00:41:46,299
all the sub projects are you know

820
00:41:52,890 --> 00:41:50,079
destroy the you know the the updates and

821
00:41:54,569 --> 00:41:52,900
the you know the various memos between

822
00:41:56,819 --> 00:41:54,579
the sub projects in the main and they

823
00:42:01,349 --> 00:41:56,829
didn't get destroyed so it's definitely

824
00:42:03,390 --> 00:42:01,359
very weird yeah it was it was intended

825
00:42:05,490 --> 00:42:03,400
to be planted there to eventually be

826
00:42:07,319 --> 00:42:05,500
found you know one of the things to

827
00:42:10,890 --> 00:42:07,329
emphasize is that when this was exposed

828
00:42:12,630 --> 00:42:10,900
and I think that was 1977 it was

829
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:12,640
headline news in all the newspapers

830
00:42:18,900 --> 00:42:16,210
across the country for you know let's

831
00:42:23,190 --> 00:42:18,910
say for many many days until they kind

832
00:42:25,370 --> 00:42:23,200
of shuffled it aside but the title of

833
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:25,380
the book that I wrote with John Selby

834
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:30,970
bellowing America's mind comes from the

835
00:42:35,789 --> 00:42:33,490
headline of an LA Times editorial in

836
00:42:38,700 --> 00:42:35,799
that period they published an editorial

837
00:42:41,970 --> 00:42:38,710
saying the CIA blowing America's mind

838
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:41,980
and they made the point that the nation

839
00:42:49,559 --> 00:42:44,650
they said the nation's powerful secret

840
00:42:52,410 --> 00:42:49,569
intelligence agencies are how do we stop

841
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:52,420
them from working to destroy the very

842
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:53,530
freedoms

843
00:42:58,680 --> 00:42:56,290
they were set up to defend and that is

844
00:43:02,760 --> 00:42:58,690
part of the point what do you do when

845
00:43:06,150 --> 00:43:02,770
you have when you have sort of a lethal

846
00:43:11,090 --> 00:43:06,160
cancer growing in the body politic that

847
00:43:14,940 --> 00:43:11,100
is working its way into civilian

848
00:43:17,100 --> 00:43:14,950
institutions like regular hospitals and

849
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:17,110
dealing with regular patients and Ivy

850
00:43:24,380 --> 00:43:19,570
League school students I mean when you

851
00:43:26,610 --> 00:43:24,390
think about Columbia Princeton Harvard

852
00:43:28,410 --> 00:43:26,620
the New York Times published an article

853
00:43:30,510 --> 00:43:28,420
we have some of these articles and

854
00:43:32,810 --> 00:43:30,520
blowing America's mind but we on the

855
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:32,820
back cover we have this headline from

856
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:39,370
New York Times August 26 1977 the CIA

857
00:43:46,530 --> 00:43:41,650
tells Columbia and Princeton of secret

858
00:43:48,030 --> 00:43:46,540
behavioral research well it's explosive

859
00:43:50,430 --> 00:43:48,040
because I mean what are we to believe

860
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:50,440
from that that these universities didn't

861
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:52,210
know that this research was going on at

862
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:55,090
their own universities that professors

863
00:44:01,770 --> 00:43:57,130
and researchers were taking money for

864
00:44:04,770 --> 00:44:01,780
this I think at a high administrative

865
00:44:06,390 --> 00:44:04,780
level they they did know and this is one

866
00:44:08,010 --> 00:44:06,400
of the interesting things that John

867
00:44:10,620 --> 00:44:08,020
Selby and I addressed because there's a

868
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:10,630
terrific chapter if you'll permit me in

869
00:44:16,980 --> 00:44:14,610
our book well if John Selby confronting

870
00:44:19,830 --> 00:44:16,990
Robert F gowhen who was then the

871
00:44:22,710 --> 00:44:19,840
president of Princeton University about

872
00:44:28,650 --> 00:44:22,720
all of these issues and about LSD and

873
00:44:30,750 --> 00:44:28,660
its use on campus and John Selby got

874
00:44:34,220 --> 00:44:30,760
into trouble for disclosing information

875
00:44:38,430 --> 00:44:34,230
that he had through the Institute about

876
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:38,440
LSD use and marijuana use at Princeton

877
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:42,370
and it got into the New York Times and

878
00:44:45,450 --> 00:44:44,290
you know it's huge embarrassment to the

879
00:44:47,610 --> 00:44:45,460
University at that time and they were

880
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:47,620
trying to contain all this as a problem

881
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:51,130
and here was John Selby who they viewed

882
00:44:56,190 --> 00:44:54,130
as kind of a betrayer

883
00:45:01,830 --> 00:44:56,200
while canon couldn't keep his mouth shut

884
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:01,840
and they sort of isolated him at that

885
00:45:07,470 --> 00:45:05,410
Institute he didn't take classes his

886
00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:07,480
final year it was all at

887
00:45:12,210 --> 00:45:10,510
Institute they gave him a diploma but

888
00:45:15,630 --> 00:45:12,220
they sort of got him out of the way it

889
00:45:19,230 --> 00:45:15,640
was fair and there I was the younger guy

890
00:45:20,790 --> 00:45:19,240
naive about all this what did I know I

891
00:45:23,430 --> 00:45:20,800
just walked right into the middle of it

892
00:45:25,890 --> 00:45:23,440
volunteered to be a subject I was being

893
00:45:29,750 --> 00:45:25,900
used I was enjoying you know being a

894
00:45:33,570 --> 00:45:29,760
part of the Institute to some extent but

895
00:45:35,700 --> 00:45:33,580
but then then came the dark side you

896
00:45:37,410 --> 00:45:35,710
know and I we we both got to see that

897
00:45:40,670 --> 00:45:37,420
too and the book builds to the climax

898
00:45:44,790 --> 00:45:40,680
where Jonathan Selby flees from

899
00:45:46,590 --> 00:45:44,800
Princeton to go to California without

900
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:46,600
finishing his courses without taking

901
00:45:56,330 --> 00:45:48,850
final exams and yet they give him his

902
00:45:59,310 --> 00:45:56,340
diploma it was a big big spider web of

903
00:46:02,130 --> 00:45:59,320
interconnections spooks men and black

904
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:02,140
were there looking in on our lives even

905
00:46:09,060 --> 00:46:05,770
after it all happened and you know we

906
00:46:11,940 --> 00:46:09,070
spent years sorting it all out well how

907
00:46:15,150 --> 00:46:11,950
about how about the the rumors that some

908
00:46:17,550 --> 00:46:15,160
people might have even been assassinated

909
00:46:22,109 --> 00:46:17,560
or killed because they knew or were

910
00:46:25,170 --> 00:46:22,119
going to talk about this like adults to

911
00:46:30,180 --> 00:46:25,180
Dulles that fell was it either one that

912
00:46:31,500 --> 00:46:30,190
fell out of the this little oh oh aren't

913
00:46:34,130 --> 00:46:31,510
you thinking of Frank Olson

914
00:46:36,540 --> 00:46:34,140
now that was Forrestal Forrest of

915
00:46:39,060 --> 00:46:36,550
Bethesda Naval Medical Iseman yes and

916
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:39,070
then Frank Olson later out of window

917
00:46:44,849 --> 00:46:41,050
under the influence of LSD they're doing

918
00:46:47,430 --> 00:46:44,859
a TV series now based on the Frank Olson

919
00:46:49,250 --> 00:46:47,440
story somebody could come up with the

920
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:49,260
name of the series what is it called

921
00:46:55,099 --> 00:46:52,090
we know we got stranger things which is

922
00:46:57,780 --> 00:46:55,109
a fictional version of all that but

923
00:46:59,700 --> 00:46:57,790
something like that you know it'll come

924
00:47:02,190 --> 00:46:59,710
it'll it'll it'll come to me there's one

925
00:47:05,010 --> 00:47:02,200
about Frank Olson but yeah people killed

926
00:47:10,050 --> 00:47:05,020
over it what was the name of the CIA

927
00:47:13,830 --> 00:47:10,060
agent was a CIA head was it Casey who

928
00:47:16,590 --> 00:47:13,840
had served as head of the CIA and then

929
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:16,600
he didn't he drown

930
00:47:21,309 --> 00:47:20,650
does anybody know that story Cole basic

931
00:47:23,469 --> 00:47:21,319
cold

932
00:47:26,859 --> 00:47:23,479
he went out he yeah he had gotten out of

933
00:47:29,890 --> 00:47:26,869
the CIA and then he retired and then he

934
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:29,900
one day he went out for a canoe ride

935
00:47:36,549 --> 00:47:33,249
yeah and then he he just never came back

936
00:47:38,799 --> 00:47:36,559
yeah there's actually a really great

937
00:47:41,289 --> 00:47:38,809
documentary his son made call I think it

938
00:47:43,630 --> 00:47:41,299
was like finding my father where he

939
00:47:49,029 --> 00:47:43,640
tries to figure out exactly what Kobe

940
00:47:51,219 --> 00:47:49,039
did tell you those who want to know why

941
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:51,229
Johnson Obie and I waited so many years

942
00:47:56,559 --> 00:47:53,930
to complete and publish blowin America's

943
00:47:57,910 --> 00:47:56,569
mind you've just heard some of the

944
00:48:00,549 --> 00:47:57,920
reasons we waited till we thought the

945
00:48:03,789 --> 00:48:00,559
coast was clear you know that you

946
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:03,799
delimitations is up right maybe not all

947
00:48:08,229 --> 00:48:05,930
right well our statute of limitations

948
00:48:10,150 --> 00:48:08,239
are up for this section of the show so

949
00:48:13,839 --> 00:48:10,160
when we come back we'll continue our

950
00:48:16,779 --> 00:48:13,849
conversation about mind-control MKULTRA

951
00:48:17,970 --> 00:48:16,789
and other devious things on exploring

952
00:48:27,260 --> 00:48:17,980
the bizarre

953
00:48:34,220 --> 00:48:31,770
explode the bazaars your e-ticket ride

954
00:48:37,500 --> 00:48:34,230
into the world of the paranormal

955
00:48:41,809 --> 00:48:37,510
strap yourself in as we traverse the

956
00:48:46,260 --> 00:48:41,819
universe exploring the unexplained UFO s

957
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:46,270
ghosts Lost Worlds cryptozoology waters

958
00:48:54,900 --> 00:48:50,410
as well as other dimensions it's time to

959
00:48:57,150 --> 00:48:54,910
take back the night now your

960
00:49:07,150 --> 00:48:57,160
electrifying hosts of exploring the

961
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:18,240
[Music]

962
00:50:04,140 --> 00:49:48,010
did we hurt your feelings don't know we

963
00:50:05,490 --> 00:50:04,150
didn't we need to love you we hate go on

964
00:50:10,530 --> 00:50:05,500
without you

965
00:50:14,099 --> 00:50:10,540
each detest you despise you

966
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:14,109
you stink don't breeze our sight again

967
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:16,930
get the hell out of here don't you come

968
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:20,330
back again down we love

969
00:50:29,500 --> 00:50:22,490
[Music]

970
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:29,510
you love you ill you're so dear be near

971
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:31,970
[Music]

972
00:50:42,230 --> 00:50:35,210
will you will love you you're grateful

973
00:50:45,859 --> 00:50:42,240
your time that sounds like so my past

974
00:50:49,370 --> 00:50:45,869
relationships it's a little bit inspired

975
00:50:50,870 --> 00:50:49,380
by Charlie Sheen alright okay I was

976
00:50:53,630 --> 00:50:50,880
gonna ask you what the inspiration oh

977
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:53,640
the whole Hollywood concept of one

978
00:50:57,859 --> 00:50:55,650
minute boy they really need you you're

979
00:51:00,290 --> 00:50:57,869
making money for them and then out the

980
00:51:01,670 --> 00:51:00,300
door you know as soon as they're you're

981
00:51:05,089 --> 00:51:01,680
not doing it for them anymore they get

982
00:51:06,380 --> 00:51:05,099
rid of you until they see how much money

983
00:51:10,339 --> 00:51:06,390
you're making for somebody else and then

984
00:51:12,589 --> 00:51:10,349
they love you again so that that song

985
00:51:15,349 --> 00:51:12,599
was the one take wonder I mean it was

986
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:15,359
completely improvised in a studio in

987
00:51:22,730 --> 00:51:18,210
Nashville again I was Professor hack

988
00:51:25,780 --> 00:51:22,740
hard drive and I had that concept and we

989
00:51:28,190 --> 00:51:25,790
just rolled with it with that I don't he

990
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:28,200
rehearsal without the words being

991
00:51:33,980 --> 00:51:31,050
written down it was pure studio

992
00:51:35,359 --> 00:51:33,990
improvisation and dr. Demento loved it

993
00:51:40,370 --> 00:51:35,369
right maybe it was one of the most

994
00:51:41,990 --> 00:51:40,380
demented songs he'd ever heard I have to

995
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:42,000
admit that's it's that's one of my

996
00:51:47,720 --> 00:51:45,690
favorite and I thought you said that you

997
00:51:49,609 --> 00:51:47,730
know during the break I thought I'd

998
00:51:56,240 --> 00:51:49,619
remembered hearing that on on dr.

999
00:52:02,120 --> 00:51:56,250
Demento well getting back to what we

1000
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:02,130
were discussing mind control a lot of

1001
00:52:08,660 --> 00:52:04,410
the emphasis that we have been talking

1002
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:08,670
about has to do with the LSD aspect of

1003
00:52:18,620 --> 00:52:14,730
it but hypnosis as you had said really

1004
00:52:21,500 --> 00:52:18,630
plays a very large part in all of this

1005
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:21,510
and I think a lot of people really

1006
00:52:28,270 --> 00:52:25,770
underestimate how powerful hypnosis can

1007
00:52:30,370 --> 00:52:28,280
be I mean you know there's

1008
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:30,380
and I don't know if it's its truth or

1009
00:52:33,730 --> 00:52:31,970
fiction I always suspected it wasn't

1010
00:52:36,130 --> 00:52:33,740
true you know they saying that you know

1011
00:52:37,980 --> 00:52:36,140
you can't get somebody to do something

1012
00:52:42,550 --> 00:52:37,990
that they wouldn't do under normal

1013
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:42,560
circumstances using hypnosis yet I have

1014
00:52:48,609 --> 00:52:45,410
read a number of and researched a number

1015
00:52:53,230 --> 00:52:48,619
of cases where that has been proven to

1016
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:53,240
be to be wrong you know it's a question

1017
00:52:56,349 --> 00:52:55,010
of the technique of how you go about

1018
00:52:59,260 --> 00:52:56,359
doing it

1019
00:53:01,960 --> 00:52:59,270
you don't get somebody to do something

1020
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:01,970
that's against their basic personality

1021
00:53:09,460 --> 00:53:06,170
and will by sort of directly ordering

1022
00:53:12,130 --> 00:53:09,470
them to do that but you do it by

1023
00:53:17,109 --> 00:53:12,140
creating a series of unpleasant symptoms

1024
00:53:19,210 --> 00:53:17,119
for them so that it steers them toward a

1025
00:53:22,510 --> 00:53:19,220
behavior that you want for example in

1026
00:53:24,670 --> 00:53:22,520
Blowing America's mind the head

1027
00:53:29,530 --> 00:53:24,680
hypnotist at neuropsychiatric Institute

1028
00:53:35,050 --> 00:53:29,540
New Jersey dr. Bernard Aronson frowned

1029
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:35,060
upon the relationship that John Selby my

1030
00:53:42,730 --> 00:53:38,450
co-author got into with a girl that John

1031
00:53:44,620 --> 00:53:42,740
Selby decided he loved and the Institute

1032
00:53:46,750 --> 00:53:44,630
felt that that would diminish their

1033
00:53:48,430 --> 00:53:46,760
control over him mmm

1034
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:48,440
they were grooming him they wanted him

1035
00:53:53,020 --> 00:53:50,210
there full-time the following year they

1036
00:53:55,900 --> 00:53:53,030
were promising a draft deferment I

1037
00:53:57,010 --> 00:53:55,910
wouldn't be sent to Vietnam the work he

1038
00:53:59,109 --> 00:53:57,020
was doing would be in the national

1039
00:53:59,710 --> 00:53:59,119
interest but they didn't want this woman

1040
00:54:04,240 --> 00:53:59,720
in his life

1041
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:04,250
so if you give somebody a condition that

1042
00:54:07,839 --> 00:54:06,050
they're gonna get nauseous in the

1043
00:54:09,790 --> 00:54:07,849
presence of somebody else and throw up

1044
00:54:12,130 --> 00:54:09,800
every time they're working third or she

1045
00:54:14,650 --> 00:54:12,140
tries to get intimate with them and you

1046
00:54:19,270 --> 00:54:14,660
know he's going to have a bout of nausea

1047
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:19,280
it would tend to harm the relationship

1048
00:54:24,339 --> 00:54:20,890
and make him go in the other direction

1049
00:54:26,230 --> 00:54:24,349
even though that isn't what he wants so

1050
00:54:28,589 --> 00:54:26,240
see that's just one example of how to do

1051
00:54:34,180 --> 00:54:28,599
it you can create a whole series of

1052
00:54:36,309 --> 00:54:34,190
symptoms with hypnotic conditions to

1053
00:54:41,110 --> 00:54:36,319
elicit behaviors where you're trying to

1054
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:44,500
okay dog well I was in say when I used

1055
00:54:47,370 --> 00:54:46,130
to live in England and when I was living

1056
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:47,380
in England action saw a very interesting

1057
00:54:52,240 --> 00:54:49,610
documentary done by again in Darren

1058
00:54:54,790 --> 00:54:52,250
brown it was called the heist he

1059
00:54:57,340 --> 00:54:54,800
actually brainwashed four people to rob

1060
00:55:00,010 --> 00:54:57,350
an armored car in the way that he did it

1061
00:55:03,550 --> 00:55:00,020
was very subtle and dirty and slow and

1062
00:55:06,580 --> 00:55:03,560
he it was partially hypnosis but

1063
00:55:09,820 --> 00:55:06,590
partially like positive feedback as well

1064
00:55:13,090 --> 00:55:09,830
so they he instructed them to go steal a

1065
00:55:15,340 --> 00:55:13,100
candy bar from a local shop and they did

1066
00:55:17,260 --> 00:55:15,350
it he picked them very carefully you

1067
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:17,270
know he weeded out a lot of people he

1068
00:55:21,010 --> 00:55:18,650
picked them for their psychological

1069
00:55:22,270 --> 00:55:21,020
characteristics and he got them to do it

1070
00:55:23,950 --> 00:55:22,280
and then he gave them positive

1071
00:55:26,260 --> 00:55:23,960
reinforcement for having done it and

1072
00:55:28,060 --> 00:55:26,270
over over quite a while he actually

1073
00:55:29,590 --> 00:55:28,070
conditioned them that when they heard a

1074
00:55:32,110 --> 00:55:29,600
Jackson 5 song they would get agitated

1075
00:55:33,940 --> 00:55:32,120
and then they would go and rob this

1076
00:55:35,770 --> 00:55:33,950
armored car and he actually simulated it

1077
00:55:40,810 --> 00:55:35,780
then it took him like 3 months to

1078
00:55:44,500 --> 00:55:40,820
deprogram them very interesting that is

1079
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:44,510
that's that's amazing I saw it was last

1080
00:55:51,700 --> 00:55:47,330
year there it was a security cam footage

1081
00:55:56,790 --> 00:55:51,710
of and I think maybe you know in in

1082
00:56:00,790 --> 00:55:56,800
Europe of this this guy robbing a store

1083
00:56:02,980 --> 00:56:00,800
but he did it through some kind of

1084
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:02,990
hypnosis and you see this guy he's

1085
00:56:08,050 --> 00:56:05,690
talking to the shopkeeper and he's he

1086
00:56:10,390 --> 00:56:08,060
like repeatedly touches the guy on his

1087
00:56:13,180 --> 00:56:10,400
shoulder you know like maybe touches him

1088
00:56:15,940 --> 00:56:13,190
on the chest are you familiar with that

1089
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:15,950
all off no but that's that's actually

1090
00:56:20,350 --> 00:56:17,690
apparently one of the ways that you can

1091
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:20,360
introduce the suggestion is that when

1092
00:56:24,940 --> 00:56:22,610
you say a specific word you touch the

1093
00:56:26,740 --> 00:56:24,950
person so you may say an entire sentence

1094
00:56:28,210 --> 00:56:26,750
but when you say a specific word you

1095
00:56:30,430 --> 00:56:28,220
touch them and over time they become

1096
00:56:32,650 --> 00:56:30,440
conditioned to that that's actually one

1097
00:56:34,450 --> 00:56:32,660
of the methods well yeah well that makes

1098
00:56:36,430 --> 00:56:34,460
sense that because then you know after

1099
00:56:37,810 --> 00:56:36,440
after talking to this you know

1100
00:56:39,700 --> 00:56:37,820
shopkeeper for a little while the

1101
00:56:42,460 --> 00:56:39,710
shopkeeper just went and opened up the

1102
00:56:44,410 --> 00:56:42,470
cash register and gave this guy the

1103
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:44,420
money and he left you know now I don't

1104
00:56:48,190 --> 00:56:45,290
know it baby

1105
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:48,200
good that's the whole concept of neural

1106
00:56:52,990 --> 00:56:50,330
linguistic programming as well that you

1107
00:56:53,720 --> 00:56:53,000
can use key words to basically program

1108
00:56:56,720 --> 00:56:53,730
somebody

1109
00:56:59,210 --> 00:56:56,730
they did that they did that in our case

1110
00:57:04,060 --> 00:56:59,220
at the New Jersey neuropsychiatric

1111
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:04,070
Institute and in Blowing America's mind

1112
00:57:12,500 --> 00:57:07,770
we show you know exactly how they did it

1113
00:57:14,330 --> 00:57:12,510
and the the first step is as I said

1114
00:57:16,849 --> 00:57:14,340
conditioning somebody to go into a

1115
00:57:18,290 --> 00:57:16,859
trance based on hearing a key word

1116
00:57:21,290 --> 00:57:18,300
that's been set up with them and

1117
00:57:25,190 --> 00:57:21,300
established but that their memory of

1118
00:57:27,890 --> 00:57:25,200
that of that word is obliterated so part

1119
00:57:30,500 --> 00:57:27,900
of the training has to do with their

1120
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:30,510
attempt to instill a word that is a

1121
00:57:35,060 --> 00:57:33,930
trigger word and try to block your

1122
00:57:38,900 --> 00:57:35,070
memory of it and see whether it works

1123
00:57:41,660 --> 00:57:38,910
and and at the beginning you know with

1124
00:57:45,950 --> 00:57:41,670
some subjects you know they may remember

1125
00:57:51,290 --> 00:57:45,960
it or it may come into their mind at a

1126
00:57:52,910 --> 00:57:51,300
later time and then they begin to be

1127
00:57:55,250 --> 00:57:52,920
suspicious about how they've been

1128
00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:55,260
conditioned to that word but the more

1129
00:57:59,450 --> 00:57:57,210
they do the training with people that

1130
00:58:00,950 --> 00:57:59,460
are susceptible to hypnosis they do get

1131
00:58:03,710 --> 00:58:00,960
to a point where the memory is just

1132
00:58:05,780 --> 00:58:03,720
absolutely will wipe out on that and

1133
00:58:09,010 --> 00:58:05,790
then they control you with a series of

1134
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:09,020
trigger words people have vast about

1135
00:58:14,450 --> 00:58:12,330
training assassins which I think they

1136
00:58:18,500 --> 00:58:14,460
called project artichoke it was an

1137
00:58:20,270 --> 00:58:18,510
offshoot of MKULTRA and they they've

1138
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:20,280
asked me well you know were they

1139
00:58:23,990 --> 00:58:21,810
training assassins at the New Jersey

1140
00:58:25,849 --> 00:58:24,000
neuropsychiatric Institute was that part

1141
00:58:30,710 --> 00:58:25,859
of the Princeton you know with that

1142
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:30,720
going on and my answer to that is no

1143
00:58:37,220 --> 00:58:34,170
because for that program they they

1144
00:58:40,010 --> 00:58:37,230
weren't looking for star Ivy League

1145
00:58:42,710 --> 00:58:40,020
students they were looking for

1146
00:58:46,300 --> 00:58:42,720
loners for people without family

1147
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:46,310
connections people who could sort of be

1148
00:58:51,830 --> 00:58:49,890
made to disappear in society and nobody

1149
00:58:55,849 --> 00:58:51,840
is gonna be nobody's going to be going

1150
00:58:58,340 --> 00:58:55,859
looking for them but it was one of their

1151
00:59:00,560 --> 00:58:58,350
goals they were attempting that and a

1152
00:59:03,310 --> 00:59:00,570
lot of people have asked questions about

1153
00:59:05,859 --> 00:59:03,320
some of the major political

1154
00:59:07,650 --> 00:59:05,869
assassinations of our lifetime

1155
00:59:11,460 --> 00:59:07,660
particularly the Robert Ken

1156
00:59:13,710 --> 00:59:11,470
any case with sirhan sirhan lair he

1157
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:13,720
claimed not to remember anything after

1158
00:59:18,809 --> 00:59:17,410
he shot Robert Kennedy no yeah there's

1159
00:59:21,329 --> 00:59:18,819
the hole catcher in the right thing they

1160
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:21,339
look like sirhan sirhan and Mark David

1161
00:59:25,319 --> 00:59:22,930
Chapman and some of the others that when

1162
00:59:27,180 --> 00:59:25,329
they complete the task they have on them

1163
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:27,190
somewhere I catch her in the Ryan in

1164
00:59:30,779 --> 00:59:29,410
some cases supposedly they sit down and

1165
00:59:32,849 --> 00:59:30,789
actually read Catcher in the Rye until

1166
00:59:35,309 --> 00:59:32,859
the cops get there The Catcher in the

1167
00:59:37,890 --> 00:59:35,319
Rye seems to be you know something

1168
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:37,900
that's very popular you know in these

1169
00:59:41,510 --> 00:59:39,970
these kind of assassination scenarios

1170
00:59:43,349 --> 00:59:41,520
that they always seem to have some

1171
00:59:45,450 --> 00:59:43,359
connection to catch her in the ride they

1172
00:59:47,099 --> 00:59:45,460
have it on them they had just read it

1173
00:59:49,230 --> 00:59:47,109
it's her favorite book but for some

1174
00:59:52,319 --> 00:59:49,240
reason there's always a linkage to catch

1175
00:59:54,390 --> 00:59:52,329
her in the right poor JD Salinger who

1176
00:59:57,059 --> 00:59:54,400
created such a masterpiece in that book

1177
00:59:59,430 --> 00:59:57,069
but of course it's a book about a loner

1178
01:00:01,500 --> 00:59:59,440
but you know he's kicked out Holden

1179
01:00:05,420 --> 01:00:01,510
Caulfield is kicked out of school he's

1180
01:00:08,609 --> 01:00:05,430
wandering he's trying to find himself he

1181
01:00:11,849 --> 01:00:08,619
he lies all the time and can't stop

1182
01:00:15,089 --> 01:00:11,859
himself from lying he said he's a he's a

1183
01:00:18,599 --> 01:00:15,099
kid out of control and it is a favorite

1184
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:18,609
book for you know the disaffected before

1185
01:00:29,910 --> 01:00:26,910
yeah yeah you you you make a good point

1186
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:29,920
and they tried everything with this they

1187
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:33,490
had a lot of money MKULTRA was top

1188
01:00:37,950 --> 01:00:36,250
secret so ask yourself with all the

1189
01:00:40,109 --> 01:00:37,960
secrecy we have today because it's only

1190
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:40,119
increased since then right it hasn't

1191
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:42,010
diminished it's gotten more and more

1192
01:00:46,829 --> 01:00:45,130
sophisticated and now the concept of

1193
01:00:52,319 --> 01:00:46,839
somebody being a leaker you know if you

1194
01:00:58,650 --> 01:00:52,329
leak something you know they're all over

1195
01:01:01,500 --> 01:00:58,660
that leaker you know and so you ask

1196
01:01:03,319 --> 01:01:01,510
yourself how could we ever know what's

1197
01:01:09,150 --> 01:01:03,329
really going on today given how

1198
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:09,160
everything is classified well you know

1199
01:01:15,450 --> 01:01:12,250
yeah well the thing that occurs to me

1200
01:01:17,490 --> 01:01:15,460
though is you know especially there in

1201
01:01:19,620 --> 01:01:17,500
Princeton and and and some of these

1202
01:01:21,620 --> 01:01:19,630
other Ivy League schools that makes me

1203
01:01:25,830 --> 01:01:21,630
wonder whether or not

1204
01:01:30,390 --> 01:01:25,840
see there you go if they were looking

1205
01:01:35,010 --> 01:01:30,400
for possible influence on future movers

1206
01:01:38,190 --> 01:01:35,020
and shakers in society you know high you

1207
01:01:41,430 --> 01:01:38,200
know high businessman politicians

1208
01:01:43,050 --> 01:01:41,440
things like during candidate yeah what's

1209
01:01:45,150 --> 01:01:43,060
the idea behind the Manchurian Candidate

1210
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:45,160
right so they they did trauma-based mind

1211
01:01:49,890 --> 01:01:47,890
control and conditioning on the guy and

1212
01:01:52,050 --> 01:01:49,900
they you know they release him back he

1213
01:01:54,420 --> 01:01:52,060
becomes a war hero and then he asked

1214
01:01:56,330 --> 01:01:54,430
elites through the system you know so

1215
01:02:02,670 --> 01:01:56,340
the Manchurian Candidate as a model

1216
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:02,680
mm-hmm well you know moving in moving it

1217
01:02:07,710 --> 01:02:05,650
one step even further I mean we hear a

1218
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:07,720
lot of the these people who say that

1219
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:09,610
they've been abducted or had contact

1220
01:02:14,970 --> 01:02:13,090
with UFOs that's something some keyword

1221
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:14,980
or some phrase or something has been

1222
01:02:20,700 --> 01:02:17,410
planted in their mind and that they will

1223
01:02:25,290 --> 01:02:20,710
all awaken simultaneously at some time

1224
01:02:29,910 --> 01:02:25,300
in the in the future so a good talk to

1225
01:02:32,790 --> 01:02:29,920
the Owls yeah owls what they say it

1226
01:02:34,740 --> 01:02:32,800
could pop it could possibly be that you

1227
01:02:37,050 --> 01:02:34,750
know this is something wrong it's

1228
01:02:41,820 --> 01:02:37,060
something that it's not just earthly in

1229
01:02:45,540 --> 01:02:41,830
origin let me let me ask you a question

1230
01:02:48,990 --> 01:02:45,550
because I raised the issue of how

1231
01:02:51,980 --> 01:02:49,000
impossible it is to unravel what's

1232
01:02:54,150 --> 01:02:51,990
really going on today in any area of

1233
01:02:57,980 --> 01:02:54,160
these affairs well you know whether

1234
01:03:01,490 --> 01:02:57,990
you're talking about the UFO issue or

1235
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:01,500
international events and conflict and

1236
01:03:09,660 --> 01:03:06,130
and the dance around approaching having

1237
01:03:14,340 --> 01:03:09,670
wars and to get a handle on what what's

1238
01:03:18,260 --> 01:03:14,350
really going to happen and I want to ask

1239
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:18,270
you the question what you think on this

1240
01:03:26,070 --> 01:03:22,650
false alarm happened in Hawaii

1241
01:03:28,290 --> 01:03:26,080
announcing that there was a an atomic

1242
01:03:30,870 --> 01:03:28,300
missile headed toward Hawaii and

1243
01:03:32,550 --> 01:03:30,880
panicked everybody in the state for what

1244
01:03:34,690 --> 01:03:32,560
was it 20 minutes or a half an hour

1245
01:03:36,910 --> 01:03:34,700
until they said it's

1246
01:03:39,430 --> 01:03:36,920
day it's a mistake right now somebody

1247
01:03:42,339 --> 01:03:39,440
somebody goofed right somebody goofed

1248
01:03:44,770 --> 01:03:42,349
but then just one or two days later then

1249
01:03:46,900 --> 01:03:44,780
the same thing happens in Japan right

1250
01:03:49,180 --> 01:03:46,910
Oh somebody goofed again I mean these

1251
01:03:50,530 --> 01:03:49,190
are these two mistakes that we haven't

1252
01:03:52,450 --> 01:03:50,540
seen you know the last twenty or thirty

1253
01:03:55,990 --> 01:03:52,460
years so we get two of them in like a

1254
01:04:00,599 --> 01:03:56,000
series of three days right so and the

1255
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:00,609
first guy in Hawaii who was blamed on oh

1256
01:04:05,650 --> 01:04:03,170
he said I'm sorry I'm sorry I made a

1257
01:04:07,300 --> 01:04:05,660
mistake and they didn't fire him but

1258
01:04:09,700 --> 01:04:07,310
they moved him laterally to some other

1259
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:09,710
job that's what I read in the paper okay

1260
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:12,650
yeah how suspicious does this seem how

1261
01:04:19,500 --> 01:04:14,530
many people think that those were really

1262
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:19,510
accidents as opposed to plan tests

1263
01:04:24,250 --> 01:04:22,250
psychological tests almost like a

1264
01:04:28,950 --> 01:04:24,260
mind-control situation to see how the

1265
01:04:32,410 --> 01:04:28,960
public is going to react because as they

1266
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:32,420
make approaches toward possible war they

1267
01:04:36,450 --> 01:04:33,890
want that that's information they need

1268
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:36,460
they absolutely need to know

1269
01:04:43,030 --> 01:04:39,410
if the public is gonna panic what are

1270
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:43,040
they gonna do right so well they they

1271
01:04:47,859 --> 01:04:45,050
certainly yeah well they've been

1272
01:04:51,790 --> 01:04:47,869
probably doing that to an occasion with

1273
01:04:55,390 --> 01:04:51,800
with the UFOs by creating a false in

1274
01:04:57,190 --> 01:04:55,400
Aereo's well in fact we know where the

1275
01:04:59,309 --> 01:04:57,200
world's because the first one back in

1276
01:05:01,660 --> 01:04:59,319
the night yeah yeah there was also the

1277
01:05:04,690 --> 01:05:01,670
death of Robinson committee but there

1278
01:05:07,690 --> 01:05:04,700
was the the famous think tank tank and

1279
01:05:11,290 --> 01:05:07,700
they did a whole scenario on you know

1280
01:05:14,859 --> 01:05:11,300
onion on UFOs and and what the reaction

1281
01:05:18,910 --> 01:05:14,869
you know would be so obviously some of

1282
01:05:20,260 --> 01:05:18,920
these sightings I don't know the there

1283
01:05:22,540 --> 01:05:20,270
was a couple in mind of course of the

1284
01:05:25,270 --> 01:05:22,550
Phoenix lights and all that we're seen

1285
01:05:27,819 --> 01:05:25,280
by some of the people I mean you know

1286
01:05:29,620 --> 01:05:27,829
you can't say for certain you know

1287
01:05:33,010 --> 01:05:29,630
what's going on here is this some

1288
01:05:34,630 --> 01:05:33,020
scenario where whether the the CIA or

1289
01:05:37,809 --> 01:05:34,640
the secret government or some foreign

1290
01:05:40,020 --> 01:05:37,819
agency is trying to see what reaction

1291
01:05:43,780 --> 01:05:40,030
how people would react ssin if there was

1292
01:05:47,170 --> 01:05:43,790
either a you know an open alien contact

1293
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:47,180
or whether whether they could use it to

1294
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:48,650
manipulate that people say

1295
01:05:54,010 --> 01:05:51,770
Kings on a lot of different subjects

1296
01:05:55,500 --> 01:05:54,020
like the recent disclosure in the New

1297
01:05:59,500 --> 01:05:55,510
York Times I mean there are some yeah

1298
01:06:03,220 --> 01:05:59,510
people who think that the whole thing is

1299
01:06:04,900 --> 01:06:03,230
a you know is a setup and that you know

1300
01:06:07,450 --> 01:06:04,910
there's there's more to it than just the

1301
01:06:10,900 --> 01:06:07,460
sighting of a of a strange object that

1302
01:06:12,730 --> 01:06:10,910
nobody can explain I would say the

1303
01:06:15,069 --> 01:06:12,740
missile test I would say with near

1304
01:06:17,170 --> 01:06:15,079
certainty as far as I'm concerned was

1305
01:06:20,289 --> 01:06:17,180
some sort of a mass was a test of mass

1306
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:20,299
public response exact you know the way

1307
01:06:24,819 --> 01:06:22,250
that they did it you know he selects the

1308
01:06:26,380 --> 01:06:24,829
wrong drop-down box then for 45 minutes

1309
01:06:28,539 --> 01:06:26,390
he when walked around and had some

1310
01:06:30,099 --> 01:06:28,549
coffee and forgot about it even though

1311
01:06:32,230 --> 01:06:30,109
the alert would have gone out to his

1312
01:06:34,750 --> 01:06:32,240
cell phone every member of his family

1313
01:06:36,849 --> 01:06:34,760
cell phone their TVs they'd call him on

1314
01:06:40,839 --> 01:06:36,859
the telephone and he didn't bother to

1315
01:06:43,839 --> 01:06:40,849
fix it for 45 minutes yeah we we we get

1316
01:06:45,549 --> 01:06:43,849
this ridiculous explanation as we always

1317
01:06:47,319 --> 01:06:45,559
do when there's a massive cover-up like

1318
01:06:49,510 --> 01:06:47,329
that it's like the weather balloon

1319
01:06:52,690 --> 01:06:49,520
Roswell was a weather balloon right it's

1320
01:06:54,730 --> 01:06:52,700
like this was a careless mistake I'm

1321
01:06:58,870 --> 01:06:54,740
sorry I'm sorry and we get the same

1322
01:07:01,089 --> 01:06:58,880
careless mistake in Japan and how many

1323
01:07:03,490 --> 01:07:01,099
people do you think believe that it was

1324
01:07:06,460 --> 01:07:03,500
really a mistake our people so

1325
01:07:10,660 --> 01:07:06,470
conditioned and mind-controlled that

1326
01:07:12,370 --> 01:07:10,670
they accept that explanation you know my

1327
01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:12,380
philosophy professor I think he had a

1328
01:07:16,359 --> 01:07:13,730
really good way of putting it that he

1329
01:07:18,370 --> 01:07:16,369
said you know I'm from the Bay Area so

1330
01:07:20,289 --> 01:07:18,380
excuse the sports team but he said that

1331
01:07:22,329 --> 01:07:20,299
the most people you know there are

1332
01:07:23,980 --> 01:07:22,339
content probably eighty and ninety

1333
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:23,990
percent of population or content with a

1334
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:26,690
six pack of the 49ers so as long as they

1335
01:07:29,829 --> 01:07:27,890
have their six pack in their football

1336
01:07:31,359 --> 01:07:29,839
game that there's they're fairly contend

1337
01:07:33,279 --> 01:07:31,369
with the existence you know we were

1338
01:07:35,410 --> 01:07:33,289
talking about the the allegory of the

1339
01:07:37,329 --> 01:07:35,420
cave and the notion that you're watching

1340
01:07:38,829 --> 01:07:37,339
the shadows go by and the shadows kind

1341
01:07:39,339 --> 01:07:38,839
of can't figure out how to get out of

1342
01:07:40,870 --> 01:07:39,349
the cave

1343
01:07:42,789 --> 01:07:40,880
they're trapped in there but the doors

1344
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:42,799
right there and they can't see it so I

1345
01:07:48,670 --> 01:07:44,930
think I think probably most people are

1346
01:07:51,700 --> 01:07:48,680
conditioned to whatever they say face

1347
01:07:53,740 --> 01:07:51,710
value I mean the CIA themselves have put

1348
01:07:56,260 --> 01:07:53,750
quite a bit of effort into you know

1349
01:07:59,830 --> 01:07:56,270
being able to manipulate media around

1350
01:08:02,350 --> 01:07:59,840
the world I forget the name of the

1351
01:08:05,350 --> 01:08:02,360
CIA project off him but they actually

1352
01:08:10,150 --> 01:08:05,360
had a project to co-opt you know

1353
01:08:12,100 --> 01:08:10,160
reporters and you know so I think most

1354
01:08:14,410 --> 01:08:12,110
people are fairly content with that and

1355
01:08:17,140 --> 01:08:14,420
and you can see it in other ways right

1356
01:08:19,450 --> 01:08:17,150
did you know as a society we're fed this

1357
01:08:22,150 --> 01:08:19,460
notion that of the American Dream you

1358
01:08:23,860 --> 01:08:22,160
know go get a new car buy a house you

1359
01:08:26,890 --> 01:08:23,870
know do this do that well we all try to

1360
01:08:28,180 --> 01:08:26,900
pursue it and you know some people it

1361
01:08:31,410 --> 01:08:28,190
causes them to live beyond their means

1362
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:31,420
but you know we're conditioned

1363
01:08:36,789 --> 01:08:34,010
societally to want that and to desire it

1364
01:08:38,710 --> 01:08:36,799
and to demand it you know we we were

1365
01:08:40,329 --> 01:08:38,720
conditioned that everybody should go to

1366
01:08:42,220 --> 01:08:40,339
college should everybody go to college

1367
01:08:44,050 --> 01:08:42,230
we can debate that well we were

1368
01:08:46,030 --> 01:08:44,060
conditioned that everybody has to and

1369
01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:46,040
now you have people with degrees that

1370
01:08:51,370 --> 01:08:48,410
work at Starbucks because you know their

1371
01:08:54,460 --> 01:08:51,380
particular majors like my own we're not

1372
01:08:56,770 --> 01:08:54,470
very useful you know my major is one of

1373
01:09:00,220 --> 01:08:56,780
those not very useful ones but you know

1374
01:09:01,990 --> 01:09:00,230
I went because I was expected to so I

1375
01:09:05,740 --> 01:09:02,000
think that there's a lot of conditioning

1376
01:09:07,809 --> 01:09:05,750
that goes on and I think that that in a

1377
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:07,819
lot of ways that you know people general

1378
01:09:16,210 --> 01:09:09,650
for the most part believe what they're

1379
01:09:17,950 --> 01:09:16,220
fed you know when you jump in for a

1380
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:17,960
minute and journalists you you know you

1381
01:09:21,550 --> 01:09:19,250
make the point of that you know most

1382
01:09:24,220 --> 01:09:21,560
people settle for doing what's expected

1383
01:09:27,579 --> 01:09:24,230
of them which i think is certainly true

1384
01:09:31,210 --> 01:09:27,589
but one of the things that i think that

1385
01:09:35,140 --> 01:09:31,220
our new book does it blowing America's

1386
01:09:38,849 --> 01:09:35,150
mind is it takes you through the process

1387
01:09:42,070 --> 01:09:38,859
where you're going from being

1388
01:09:44,980 --> 01:09:42,080
manipulated and controlled and you're a

1389
01:09:46,300 --> 01:09:44,990
guinea pig in a spiderweb that's much

1390
01:09:49,599 --> 01:09:46,310
larger than you and you can't see all

1391
01:09:54,700 --> 01:09:49,609
the dimensions of it to the awakening of

1392
01:09:57,100 --> 01:09:54,710
a rebellious spirit inside you where you

1393
01:10:01,390 --> 01:09:57,110
have a tremendous urge to break free of

1394
01:10:04,150 --> 01:10:01,400
that and that's where the battle goes on

1395
01:10:06,220 --> 01:10:04,160
between the attempt to reassert the

1396
01:10:09,580 --> 01:10:06,230
hypnotic control over the subject and

1397
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:09,590
the subjects determination to reject it

1398
01:10:14,330 --> 01:10:11,050
at all

1399
01:10:19,580 --> 01:10:14,340
and to pull out and even be toward

1400
01:10:22,410 --> 01:10:19,590
destructive toward the the controlling

1401
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:22,420
psychiatrists and that's what you see

1402
01:10:26,609 --> 01:10:23,770
happen in blowing America's mind

1403
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:26,619
especially with my co-author John Selby

1404
01:10:32,250 --> 01:10:29,770
who reached a point where you know he

1405
01:10:33,780 --> 01:10:32,260
wasn't going to take it anymore and he

1406
01:10:36,660 --> 01:10:33,790
was absolutely determined to get into

1407
01:10:39,350 --> 01:10:36,670
the Institute files even if it meant

1408
01:10:42,209 --> 01:10:39,360
breaking into those file cabinets and

1409
01:10:44,459 --> 01:10:42,219
finding his own file and getting to the

1410
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:44,469
truth of what was going on and then

1411
01:10:53,339 --> 01:10:48,570
turning against it all and warning me

1412
01:10:56,879 --> 01:10:53,349
warning me who I was completely sold on

1413
01:10:59,850 --> 01:10:56,889
it at that point and warning me to to

1414
01:11:02,280 --> 01:10:59,860
get out of that program get out while I

1415
01:11:04,530 --> 01:11:02,290
could before you know I was so

1416
01:11:06,510 --> 01:11:04,540
manipulated and controlled and weak and

1417
01:11:09,870 --> 01:11:06,520
well that they they have you in their

1418
01:11:11,910 --> 01:11:09,880
pocket at that point so it takes you all

1419
01:11:14,069 --> 01:11:11,920
the way from the beginning of the naive

1420
01:11:17,910 --> 01:11:14,079
introduction and getting sucked in and

1421
01:11:22,049 --> 01:11:17,920
trapped in the spider web to asserting

1422
01:11:24,120 --> 01:11:22,059
your own will and at that point the I

1423
01:11:25,609 --> 01:11:24,130
think that the being a part of the

1424
01:11:29,729 --> 01:11:25,619
project has actually done you some good

1425
01:11:31,919 --> 01:11:29,739
because you've become strong enough to

1426
01:11:35,490 --> 01:11:31,929
get rid of those things that are the

1427
01:11:37,859 --> 01:11:35,500
controls on you and for both John Selby

1428
01:11:40,350 --> 01:11:37,869
and I that's what happened in our own

1429
01:11:43,649 --> 01:11:40,360
lives by breaking free of the Institute

1430
01:11:45,780 --> 01:11:43,659
and finding we were we went after the

1431
01:11:48,270 --> 01:11:45,790
lives that we wanted to live whether it

1432
01:11:50,700 --> 01:11:48,280
was writing all those books or for me

1433
01:11:53,609 --> 01:11:50,710
making all those films wouldn't happen

1434
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:53,619
if we hadn't had this finally well

1435
01:11:59,280 --> 01:11:55,690
unfortunately we're coming up on an

1436
01:12:02,160 --> 01:11:59,290
institute that we cannot break and so

1437
01:12:08,430 --> 01:12:02,170
when we come back we will continue this

1438
01:12:08,440 --> 01:12:13,300
[Music]

1439
01:12:20,030 --> 01:12:17,450
now back to exploring the bazaar with

1440
01:12:23,330 --> 01:12:20,040
two of the most electrifying researchers

1441
01:12:33,220 --> 01:12:23,340
in the Paranoid your hosts Timothy Becca

1442
01:12:38,030 --> 01:12:35,750
I'm professor hack hard drive of the

1443
01:12:40,220 --> 01:12:38,040
technically kind on a computer a nerd a

1444
01:12:44,440 --> 01:12:40,230
little out of my mind with you I'm

1445
01:12:47,570 --> 01:12:44,450
infatuated and I'm so exasperated

1446
01:12:49,430 --> 01:12:47,580
obsessed to the max pass and you FX cuz

1447
01:12:51,650 --> 01:12:49,440
my email won't work you must think I'm a

1448
01:12:54,610 --> 01:12:51,660
jerk but you're really so dear darling

1449
01:12:57,830 --> 01:12:54,620
it's you and Eve near so I'm downloading

1450
01:13:04,880 --> 01:12:57,840
a you sweetheart

1451
01:13:06,950 --> 01:13:04,890
yeah I'm downloading my laptops here you

1452
01:13:09,140 --> 01:13:06,960
have nothing to fear they say it just

1453
01:13:14,050 --> 01:13:09,150
tickles as I download your pixels with

1454
01:13:14,060 --> 01:13:36,850
900

1455
01:13:47,590 --> 01:13:41,230
and I want to be best but with you

1456
01:13:49,510 --> 01:13:47,600
darling in my laptop Hey on Thursdays

1457
01:13:51,490 --> 01:13:49,520
I'll clean up your file on Tuesdays and

1458
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:51,500
Fridays you'll defrag for a while on

1459
01:13:56,080 --> 01:13:54,290
Sundays when days o debug your hair our

1460
01:14:10,330 --> 01:13:56,090
holidays and Saturdays you'll be my

1461
01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:10,340
software because I'm downloading drive

1462
01:14:14,020 --> 01:14:12,530
here on exploring the bazaar so Paul

1463
01:14:17,370 --> 01:14:14,030
what's the what was the inspiration for

1464
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:17,380
that one well that's my alter ego of the

1465
01:14:26,190 --> 01:14:23,930
you know the the demonic male motivation

1466
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:26,200
is kind of taken to the max if you could

1467
01:14:30,940 --> 01:14:29,090
take the object of your erotic desires

1468
01:14:32,290 --> 01:14:30,950
and controller to the extent that you

1469
01:14:36,850 --> 01:14:32,300
could download her into your computer

1470
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:36,860
and turn her into a series of pixels

1471
01:14:41,470 --> 01:14:39,410
that you completely control so it's kind

1472
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:41,480
of the ultimate male chauvinist fantasy

1473
01:14:48,550 --> 01:14:46,250
there that's right no I mean how are we

1474
01:14:50,470 --> 01:14:48,560
from that actually happening though well

1475
01:14:55,210 --> 01:14:50,480
we're not far away at all because I mean

1476
01:14:57,130 --> 01:14:55,220
you talk about about beers and and and

1477
01:15:00,750 --> 01:14:57,140
the football games as being all it takes

1478
01:15:04,380 --> 01:15:00,760
to satisfy the male's of America now but

1479
01:15:07,450 --> 01:15:04,390
pornography is so prevalent and so free

1480
01:15:09,510 --> 01:15:07,460
that I'm beginning to think that that's

1481
01:15:10,630 --> 01:15:09,520
part of the mind-control plot too right

1482
01:15:13,330 --> 01:15:10,640
mmm

1483
01:15:16,300 --> 01:15:13,340
money more seven anything you want you

1484
01:15:18,250 --> 01:15:16,310
know what I'm free huh you know what you

1485
01:15:19,900 --> 01:15:18,260
know what's interesting is it a lot when

1486
01:15:23,590 --> 01:15:19,910
you look at pornography that a lot of

1487
01:15:25,690 --> 01:15:23,600
the kind of technological leaps we make

1488
01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:25,700
you know there are either military or

1489
01:15:29,610 --> 01:15:27,410
pornography right you know they rise

1490
01:15:31,870 --> 01:15:29,620
some of the first people to stream video

1491
01:15:33,430 --> 01:15:31,880
you know they were some of the first

1492
01:15:37,150 --> 01:15:33,440
people to get a straight digital the

1493
01:15:39,310 --> 01:15:37,160
digital editing you know so they

1494
01:15:41,170 --> 01:15:39,320
invested a lot of money in it it's a

1495
01:15:43,330 --> 01:15:41,180
multi-billion dollar industry so yeah I

1496
01:15:44,860 --> 01:15:43,340
wouldn't be surprised and actually

1497
01:15:46,870 --> 01:15:44,870
what's interesting is that you played

1498
01:15:48,430 --> 01:15:46,880
that song you know I was watching the

1499
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:48,440
x-files last night and that was the

1500
01:15:52,450 --> 01:15:50,210
whole thing further than

1501
01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:52,460
not last night but the last week you

1502
01:15:56,290 --> 01:15:53,690
know they had taken one of the lone

1503
01:15:59,890 --> 01:15:56,300
gunmen and loaded them into you know

1504
01:16:01,780 --> 01:15:59,900
kind of matrix kind of thing so you know

1505
01:16:04,750 --> 01:16:01,790
quantum computing is all we really need

1506
01:16:07,870 --> 01:16:04,760
to do it were there well I be

1507
01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:07,880
considering they're trying to go handle

1508
01:16:11,020 --> 01:16:09,170
if I finish your sentence ever I'm sorry

1509
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:11,030
well I was gonna I was gonna say I

1510
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:12,290
wouldn't be surprised if they're

1511
01:16:19,150 --> 01:16:13,810
actively trying to do it

1512
01:16:21,790 --> 01:16:19,160
well considering the the great leap that

1513
01:16:24,310 --> 01:16:21,800
has taken place with the internet I mean

1514
01:16:27,459 --> 01:16:24,320
I mean I can I can remember it's not

1515
01:16:31,510 --> 01:16:27,469
that long ago you know the late 1980s

1516
01:16:33,610 --> 01:16:31,520
really most of us had never heard of the

1517
01:16:37,479 --> 01:16:33,620
Internet and and in just this short

1518
01:16:46,180 --> 01:16:37,489
period of time how it has become so

1519
01:16:48,850 --> 01:16:46,190
prevalent and so really our lives it's

1520
01:16:52,390 --> 01:16:48,860
such a control factor in everybody's

1521
01:16:55,060 --> 01:16:52,400
lives now so in the same amount of time

1522
01:16:57,190 --> 01:16:55,070
in the future you know what is going to

1523
01:16:59,110 --> 01:16:57,200
be the next thing that I mean that you

1524
01:17:02,260 --> 01:16:59,120
know we're not even thinking about now

1525
01:17:05,740 --> 01:17:02,270
and yet you know like our kids are gonna

1526
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:05,750
be like Oh dad you know you're so out of

1527
01:17:14,440 --> 01:17:10,570
it I would say probably a virtual world

1528
01:17:17,050 --> 01:17:14,450
because humans and humans as a species

1529
01:17:20,740 --> 01:17:17,060
you know we have a we definitely have a

1530
01:17:24,310 --> 01:17:20,750
kind of slant toward escapism and if you

1531
01:17:27,970 --> 01:17:24,320
had some sort of a virtual space you

1532
01:17:30,010 --> 01:17:27,980
know now you're no longer you know

1533
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:30,020
you're no longer ten you're whatever you

1534
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:31,610
want to be you know you could be a wolf

1535
01:17:39,010 --> 01:17:35,570
or a dragon or whatever a woman or a man

1536
01:17:40,990 --> 01:17:39,020
or whatever you want and now you're

1537
01:17:43,660 --> 01:17:41,000
starting to see VR goggles that can

1538
01:17:45,790 --> 01:17:43,670
attach to cellphones and you know they

1539
01:17:47,140 --> 01:17:45,800
they kind of finally nip that thing they

1540
01:17:49,930 --> 01:17:47,150
thought they were gonna do it back in

1541
01:17:52,360 --> 01:17:49,940
the 90s and you know in the late 90s you

1542
01:17:54,670 --> 01:17:52,370
had this you know these virtual worlds

1543
01:17:57,250 --> 01:17:54,680
have popped up and they kind of didn't

1544
01:17:58,630 --> 01:17:57,260
cut it because you had to you know you

1545
01:18:00,100 --> 01:17:58,640
had still had to sit in front of the

1546
01:18:02,650 --> 01:18:00,110
computer with the mouse and guide the

1547
01:18:03,850 --> 01:18:02,660
avatar around right you know we're fast

1548
01:18:06,100 --> 01:18:03,860
approaching the point where that

1549
01:18:08,169 --> 01:18:06,110
no longer gonna happen and your your

1550
01:18:09,879 --> 01:18:08,179
rapidly heading toward you know the kind

1551
01:18:12,340 --> 01:18:09,889
of cyberpunk kind of scenario where you

1552
01:18:14,709 --> 01:18:12,350
can Jack yourself in you can plug

1553
01:18:17,530 --> 01:18:14,719
yourself into the car plug yourself into

1554
01:18:19,510 --> 01:18:17,540
the TV plug yourself into a you know

1555
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:19,520
into a computer and then dump yourself

1556
01:18:25,709 --> 01:18:22,010
out onto this virtualized world so I'd

1557
01:18:29,379 --> 01:18:25,719
probably say in the next 10 or 10 years

1558
01:18:30,729 --> 01:18:29,389
yeah now say doubt verily here here

1559
01:18:32,770 --> 01:18:30,739
we've been talking about you know this

1560
01:18:36,160 --> 01:18:32,780
are dis entire evening about you know

1561
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:36,170
mind manipulation and all that that is

1562
01:18:40,810 --> 01:18:38,090
like the ultimate wet dream I would

1563
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:40,820
think of a lot of these people who would

1564
01:18:47,109 --> 01:18:45,050
just love to control the population you

1565
01:18:50,890 --> 01:18:47,119
know you have people in a virtual world

1566
01:18:54,070 --> 01:18:50,900
that you know are me you can you can

1567
01:18:57,310 --> 01:18:54,080
control these people it's so easily

1568
01:18:59,080 --> 01:18:57,320
without them ever knowing it well and

1569
01:19:01,990 --> 01:18:59,090
you look at you can see some of the

1570
01:19:04,750 --> 01:19:02,000
outliers now right you have a lot of you

1571
01:19:07,540 --> 01:19:04,760
know quantum mathematicians physicists

1572
01:19:11,050 --> 01:19:07,550
theorists that are arguing are we in a

1573
01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:11,060
matrix now right and we see these

1574
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:14,090
glitches these ideas that we have you

1575
01:19:17,740 --> 01:19:16,010
know about synchronicity and are those

1576
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:17,750
indicators that were actually in some

1577
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:20,810
sort of a virtualized world today so the

1578
01:19:25,629 --> 01:19:22,610
fact that these thinkers who are usually

1579
01:19:28,540 --> 01:19:25,639
out on the on the edge you know they're

1580
01:19:31,330 --> 01:19:28,550
like I'm an engineer right now work on

1581
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:31,340
this kind of stuff and you know we're

1582
01:19:36,910 --> 01:19:34,010
very rooted in today today trying to

1583
01:19:39,250 --> 01:19:36,920
make our applications do whatever but

1584
01:19:40,450 --> 01:19:39,260
those guys way out on the edge you know

1585
01:19:43,090 --> 01:19:40,460
they're the ones that are kind of the

1586
01:19:46,540 --> 01:19:43,100
prophets of the future you know and

1587
01:19:48,580 --> 01:19:46,550
they're they're seeing that and they're

1588
01:19:50,890 --> 01:19:48,590
starting to argue well maybe we're in a

1589
01:19:54,430 --> 01:19:50,900
virtualized world right now as we speak

1590
01:19:56,280 --> 01:19:54,440
and the fact that they're putting effort

1591
01:19:58,600 --> 01:19:56,290
and time into thinking down that path

1592
01:20:00,450 --> 01:19:58,610
then that indicates that somebody

1593
01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:00,460
somewhere is moving in that direction

1594
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:03,170
otherwise they wouldn't bother they'd go

1595
01:20:07,840 --> 01:20:05,210
theorize and how soon we'll be able to

1596
01:20:10,180 --> 01:20:07,850
go to Barnard star Alpha Centauri well

1597
01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:10,190
they gave up on that and now it's all

1598
01:20:15,939 --> 01:20:13,250
about the matrix and creating a matrix

1599
01:20:17,470 --> 01:20:15,949
kind of you know kind of set up so I

1600
01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:17,480
would say we're definitely marching

1601
01:20:20,250 --> 01:20:18,050
there

1602
01:20:23,319 --> 01:20:20,260
we already have you know the rudimentary

1603
01:20:24,910 --> 01:20:23,329
elements of quantum computing and that's

1604
01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:24,920
the kind of power that you need to do

1605
01:20:29,080 --> 01:20:27,050
this kind of thing you can't do this on

1606
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:29,090
on a dual ten core machine with a

1607
01:20:33,189 --> 01:20:31,010
terabyte of RAM it's not going to cut it

1608
01:20:35,830 --> 01:20:33,199
you know you need to push me on that and

1609
01:20:37,810 --> 01:20:35,840
be able to to use like cell processors

1610
01:20:39,850 --> 01:20:37,820
and other things where you know you can

1611
01:20:42,339 --> 01:20:39,860
chain together thousands or millions of

1612
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:42,349
these processors together to parallel

1613
01:20:49,030 --> 01:20:46,730
parallel compute so but you know we have

1614
01:20:51,609 --> 01:20:49,040
the we have the basic technology to

1615
01:20:55,990 --> 01:20:51,619
achieve some level of it it's just

1616
01:20:58,359 --> 01:20:56,000
polygonal and kind of kind of 1990s ish

1617
01:21:03,750 --> 01:20:58,369
but we're definitely heading down that

1618
01:21:07,899 --> 01:21:03,760
road well at least at least civilian yes

1619
01:21:09,399 --> 01:21:07,909
okay I mean I know we yeah we've talked

1620
01:21:12,459 --> 01:21:09,409
about this before you know when it comes

1621
01:21:14,260 --> 01:21:12,469
to you know like secret aircraft and

1622
01:21:16,990 --> 01:21:14,270
things like that that you know the

1623
01:21:20,049 --> 01:21:17,000
military is probably at least 50 years

1624
01:21:22,390 --> 01:21:20,059
ahead of civilian so when it comes to

1625
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:22,400
just what we were talking about you know

1626
01:21:28,359 --> 01:21:24,770
what is being used and hiding in the

1627
01:21:30,339 --> 01:21:28,369
wings that that we have no idea it's

1628
01:21:32,319 --> 01:21:30,349
impossible to tell the DARPA you'll

1629
01:21:36,040 --> 01:21:32,329
never figure out it's too

1630
01:21:40,209 --> 01:21:36,050
compartmentalized Ben yeah not only you

1631
01:21:43,510 --> 01:21:40,219
know not only is it compartmentalised

1632
01:21:46,089 --> 01:21:43,520
but this information is a huge industry

1633
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:46,099
in and of itself too right so they

1634
01:21:51,490 --> 01:21:49,610
protect the compartmentalization by you

1635
01:21:54,669 --> 01:21:51,500
know the expression that's popular fake

1636
01:21:56,740 --> 01:21:54,679
news well the the fake story that has

1637
01:21:58,600 --> 01:21:56,750
the grain of truth in it is something

1638
01:22:01,209 --> 01:21:58,610
that those of us interested in UFOs have

1639
01:22:05,950 --> 01:22:01,219
been suffering with for yeah half a

1640
01:22:09,939 --> 01:22:05,960
century easily right and that

1641
01:22:12,879 --> 01:22:09,949
disinformation industry the number of

1642
01:22:14,799 --> 01:22:12,889
people involved in concocting false

1643
01:22:18,120 --> 01:22:14,809
stories again to manipulate public

1644
01:22:22,299 --> 01:22:18,130
perception why are they so completely

1645
01:22:26,229 --> 01:22:22,309
intent on manipulating what the public

1646
01:22:28,240 --> 01:22:26,239
thinks and believes it's it's fun the

1647
01:22:31,959 --> 01:22:28,250
fundamentals of population control and

1648
01:22:34,989 --> 01:22:31,969
it goes back with its Germany

1649
01:22:37,180 --> 01:22:34,999
the kind of mind-control experimentation

1650
01:22:39,850 --> 01:22:37,190
we're talking about in Blowing America's

1651
01:22:44,529 --> 01:22:39,860
mind back to the most rudimentary days

1652
01:22:47,979 --> 01:22:44,539
of it starting in the 1950s and and the

1653
01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:47,989
use of drugs and the techniques today

1654
01:22:52,689 --> 01:22:50,210
are so much more sophisticated take

1655
01:22:55,629 --> 01:22:52,699
spying for example take this as an

1656
01:22:57,009 --> 01:22:55,639
example wiretapping used to be an

1657
01:22:59,169 --> 01:22:57,019
industry in itself there were

1658
01:23:01,359 --> 01:22:59,179
professional wiretap errs some that

1659
01:23:03,160 --> 01:23:01,369
worked for the mob let's say and they'd

1660
01:23:05,080 --> 01:23:03,170
have a target and they'd have to get

1661
01:23:07,270 --> 01:23:05,090
into a house and they'd have to plant a

1662
01:23:09,009 --> 01:23:07,280
bug and they'd have to do it when they

1663
01:23:10,569 --> 01:23:09,019
could have access when nobody would be

1664
01:23:12,060 --> 01:23:10,579
there they'd have to try to do it in a

1665
01:23:15,549 --> 01:23:12,070
way that it couldn't be detective

1666
01:23:18,219 --> 01:23:15,559
detected you know they had to wire house

1667
01:23:20,919 --> 01:23:18,229
and they had to wire a phone in the

1668
01:23:22,689 --> 01:23:20,929
wireless era we live in today nobody has

1669
01:23:24,819 --> 01:23:22,699
to do that anymore I mean it would be

1670
01:23:27,939 --> 01:23:24,829
absurd to think that you've got to go

1671
01:23:30,069 --> 01:23:27,949
plant a bug on someone when everyone is

1672
01:23:31,180 --> 01:23:30,079
carrying that bug around in their pocket

1673
01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:31,190
and it's their cell phone

1674
01:23:37,359 --> 01:23:34,610
it's the ultimate spy device you know

1675
01:23:41,739 --> 01:23:37,369
you can turn on senator recorder and the

1676
01:23:43,870 --> 01:23:41,749
hammer on it'll be hurt yeah yeah yeah I

1677
01:23:46,899 --> 01:23:43,880
mean how many people have the habit of

1678
01:23:49,390 --> 01:23:46,909
putting a piece of tape over the camera

1679
01:23:53,350 --> 01:23:49,400
lens on their computer you know am I the

1680
01:23:56,500 --> 01:23:53,360
only one you know who know justice

1681
01:23:58,330 --> 01:23:56,510
assumes that they can use it to look

1682
01:24:03,160 --> 01:23:58,340
into your room or spy on you at any time

1683
01:24:05,859 --> 01:24:03,170
and all this myth about they need a

1684
01:24:07,870 --> 01:24:05,869
court order right they need you know

1685
01:24:10,299 --> 01:24:07,880
need to go and get a court order to be

1686
01:24:12,790 --> 01:24:10,309
able to listen in on that conversation

1687
01:24:16,029 --> 01:24:12,800
or read that email it's like you have to

1688
01:24:17,589 --> 01:24:16,039
say well give me a break you know if the

1689
01:24:21,549 --> 01:24:17,599
government isn't doing it the hackers

1690
01:24:23,259 --> 01:24:21,559
are doing it right science there's also

1691
01:24:25,209 --> 01:24:23,269
a funny thing about that is that they

1692
01:24:28,060 --> 01:24:25,219
only need that if the communication

1693
01:24:30,279 --> 01:24:28,070
takes place inside the United States the

1694
01:24:32,229 --> 01:24:30,289
minute that you send an email it goes

1695
01:24:34,569 --> 01:24:32,239
somewhere outside the United States

1696
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:34,579
you no longer need any of that stuff so

1697
01:24:38,790 --> 01:24:36,530
you can may have it they have the person

1698
01:24:42,700 --> 01:24:38,800
they have the permission by law to

1699
01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:42,710
listen in on any of it you know track

1700
01:24:45,870 --> 01:24:44,090
anyone

1701
01:24:49,030 --> 01:24:45,880
and I mean there's the famous story

1702
01:24:51,580 --> 01:24:49,040
about the ATT facility back in the 90s

1703
01:24:54,550 --> 01:24:51,590
where this guy it was in Wired and this

1704
01:24:56,500 --> 01:24:54,560
network engineer has found this cable

1705
01:24:58,180 --> 01:24:56,510
attached to one of the core switches

1706
01:25:00,580 --> 01:24:58,190
where all the data was passing through

1707
01:25:02,740 --> 01:25:00,590
and he traced this thing at racist and

1708
01:25:05,560 --> 01:25:02,750
racist thing and eventually you know he

1709
01:25:07,570 --> 01:25:05,570
came upon a box that nobody could

1710
01:25:09,730 --> 01:25:07,580
explain those mark property of the US

1711
01:25:11,710 --> 01:25:09,740
government you know and I was basically

1712
01:25:14,830 --> 01:25:11,720
carnivore it was intercepting all the

1713
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:14,840
all the web traffic and then analyzing

1714
01:25:20,610 --> 01:25:16,810
where it was going and what it was doing

1715
01:25:22,750 --> 01:25:20,620
you know so these things in a show on

1716
01:25:25,180 --> 01:25:22,760
they were some of the cell phone calls

1717
01:25:27,880 --> 01:25:25,190
pick this stuff up off the satellites I

1718
01:25:36,330 --> 01:25:27,890
mean it's it's been pervasive for 20

1719
01:25:40,210 --> 01:25:36,340
years you know it's the black world of

1720
01:25:45,670 --> 01:25:40,220
what they call intelligence well and

1721
01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:45,680
that's politics it's the deep state to

1722
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:47,690
write that it's not it's not just the

1723
01:25:53,020 --> 01:25:50,570
black world the the black world is the

1724
01:25:55,510 --> 01:25:53,030
intelligence and espionage communities

1725
01:25:57,700 --> 01:25:55,520
are are controlled and managed by the

1726
01:25:59,800 --> 01:25:57,710
deep state so really if you want to

1727
01:26:01,630 --> 01:25:59,810
understand where these things are going

1728
01:26:03,490 --> 01:26:01,640
what they're doing and why you have to

1729
01:26:06,460 --> 01:26:03,500
look at the deep state so you have to

1730
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:06,470
not look at the director of the CIA is

1731
01:26:10,210 --> 01:26:08,330
an appointee you need to look at the you

1732
01:26:13,270 --> 01:26:10,220
know assistant directors have been there

1733
01:26:15,430 --> 01:26:13,280
for 20 or 30 years and you need to look

1734
01:26:20,290 --> 01:26:15,440
at these guys who are career you know

1735
01:26:22,510 --> 01:26:20,300
clergy deep state operatives you know I

1736
01:26:23,800 --> 01:26:22,520
want to raise an issue about the deep

1737
01:26:27,460 --> 01:26:23,810
state operative because there's a

1738
01:26:30,940 --> 01:26:27,470
perfect example in a film that's out now

1739
01:26:34,020 --> 01:26:30,950
called Mark felt was deep throat of

1740
01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:34,030
Watergate and you know he was a career

1741
01:26:39,850 --> 01:26:37,250
official at the FBI you know he had

1742
01:26:41,590 --> 01:26:39,860
survived for you know decades people

1743
01:26:45,310 --> 01:26:41,600
came and went but mark felt what was

1744
01:26:47,530 --> 01:26:45,320
always there and you know they were they

1745
01:26:49,960 --> 01:26:47,540
couldn't get rid of him they were afraid

1746
01:26:51,490 --> 01:26:49,970
of him you know he knew too much and at

1747
01:26:56,040 --> 01:26:51,500
a certain point he decided to turn

1748
01:26:57,190 --> 01:26:56,050
against Richard Nixon and he contacted

1749
01:26:59,350 --> 01:26:57,200
Woodward

1750
01:27:00,790 --> 01:26:59,360
and Bernstein and he began guiding them

1751
01:27:02,980 --> 01:27:00,800
through everything they needed to know

1752
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:02,990
in order to unravel the mystery of

1753
01:27:06,970 --> 01:27:04,730
Watergate and bring down the Nixon

1754
01:27:10,060 --> 01:27:06,980
administration it was done by one of

1755
01:27:13,300 --> 01:27:10,070
those career FBI guys from the inside

1756
01:27:16,180 --> 01:27:13,310
and it's a similar thing with some of

1757
01:27:20,440 --> 01:27:16,190
the other whistleblowers where you know

1758
01:27:23,650 --> 01:27:20,450
if somebody you know inside the

1759
01:27:26,050 --> 01:27:23,660
intelligence world that like my

1760
01:27:28,900 --> 01:27:26,060
professor hack harddrive song the

1761
01:27:32,320 --> 01:27:28,910
WikiLeaks song you know one one thumb

1762
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:32,330
drive into the the hands of somebody

1763
01:27:39,160 --> 01:27:35,690
who's gonna expose it you know can do of

1764
01:27:41,980 --> 01:27:39,170
a lot of damage to those that are trying

1765
01:27:43,780 --> 01:27:41,990
to keep all these things secret but

1766
01:27:47,440 --> 01:27:43,790
sometimes it's the only way that the

1767
01:27:49,030 --> 01:27:47,450
public can even get a glimpse into what

1768
01:27:51,790 --> 01:27:49,040
kinds of things are being manipulated

1769
01:27:54,210 --> 01:27:51,800
and controlled right I mean it was a

1770
01:27:58,750 --> 01:27:54,220
shock to the whole public wasn't it to

1771
01:28:04,660 --> 01:27:58,760
learn that that their their phone calls

1772
01:28:06,550 --> 01:28:04,670
were all being monitored mm-hmm well

1773
01:28:08,230 --> 01:28:06,560
that's that's just it though I mean you

1774
01:28:11,380 --> 01:28:08,240
know right now we kind of we live in an

1775
01:28:13,210 --> 01:28:11,390
age where these kind of revelations the

1776
01:28:15,190 --> 01:28:13,220
the whistleblowers are they're demonized

1777
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:15,200
and you know it's just like oh my god

1778
01:28:19,450 --> 01:28:17,210
this person is this timey you just might

1779
01:28:21,340 --> 01:28:19,460
as well invite you know Russia to pull

1780
01:28:23,170 --> 01:28:21,350
their tanks up into up to the White

1781
01:28:25,990 --> 01:28:23,180
House you know this guy is just damaged

1782
01:28:35,800 --> 01:28:26,000
our national security to the point where

1783
01:28:39,880 --> 01:28:35,810
of no return hmm so and we only have

1784
01:28:41,350 --> 01:28:39,890
really about less than 10 minutes of the

1785
01:28:47,620 --> 01:28:41,360
show but I want to ask you real quick

1786
01:28:51,580 --> 01:28:47,630
Paul is there any aspect of what

1787
01:28:55,450 --> 01:28:51,590
happened to you you know in Princeton

1788
01:28:56,800 --> 01:28:55,460
that you left with with really no memory

1789
01:29:00,550 --> 01:28:56,810
because you know I'm and I'm referring

1790
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:00,560
to the press release about your book

1791
01:29:05,770 --> 01:29:03,650
that said then it took the author's 50

1792
01:29:07,750 --> 01:29:05,780
years to decondition their own mind to

1793
01:29:10,750 --> 01:29:07,760
remember what was done to them at the

1794
01:29:13,720 --> 01:29:10,760
Institute in Princeton so I mean

1795
01:29:15,609 --> 01:29:13,730
are you being literal with that that you

1796
01:29:17,770 --> 01:29:15,619
know years later

1797
01:29:20,919 --> 01:29:17,780
yeah that's not that's not so literal

1798
01:29:23,740 --> 01:29:20,929
for me at John Selby has felt through

1799
01:29:26,729 --> 01:29:23,750
the decades that things have come back

1800
01:29:29,830 --> 01:29:26,739
to him and at different times that have

1801
01:29:31,899 --> 01:29:29,840
been buried and then have come to the

1802
01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:31,909
surface and the process of unraveling

1803
01:29:38,799 --> 01:29:34,730
all of those conditions that were

1804
01:29:42,879 --> 01:29:38,809
blocked out was a long and difficult you

1805
01:29:45,580 --> 01:29:42,889
know sort of a spider web I I felt and

1806
01:29:48,069 --> 01:29:45,590
of course he was in the program longer

1807
01:29:51,279 --> 01:29:48,079
than I was he was sucked in deeper he

1808
01:29:54,129 --> 01:29:51,289
suffered more than I did I got out

1809
01:29:59,350 --> 01:29:54,139
sooner you know before the damage was

1810
01:30:01,390 --> 01:29:59,360
done and let's say but I felt in working

1811
01:30:03,279 --> 01:30:01,400
with John Selby during on blowing

1812
01:30:04,990 --> 01:30:03,289
America's mind during those first few

1813
01:30:08,529 --> 01:30:05,000
years after we were free of the

1814
01:30:10,180 --> 01:30:08,539
Institute that we unraveled most of it

1815
01:30:12,790 --> 01:30:10,190
and there was a lot that never needed to

1816
01:30:17,560 --> 01:30:12,800
be unraveled of course because the

1817
01:30:20,649 --> 01:30:17,570
relationships with dr. Bernard Aronson

1818
01:30:24,580 --> 01:30:20,659
the head hypnotist these were conscious

1819
01:30:27,310 --> 01:30:24,590
memories and a lot of what was done to

1820
01:30:30,220 --> 01:30:27,320
us was a conscious or came back in

1821
01:30:32,770 --> 01:30:30,230
flashbacks when we call this the book a

1822
01:30:34,149 --> 01:30:32,780
true story the subtitle of blowing

1823
01:30:38,939 --> 01:30:34,159
America's mind is a true story of

1824
01:30:41,439 --> 01:30:38,949
Princeton CIA mind control LSD and Zen

1825
01:30:44,620 --> 01:30:41,449
the Zen part of it we didn't talk about

1826
01:30:48,490 --> 01:30:44,630
but John Selby who grew up on a cattle

1827
01:30:51,040 --> 01:30:48,500
ranch was it he became you know he was a

1828
01:30:55,209 --> 01:30:51,050
cowboy in Princeton fish-out-of-water

1829
01:30:59,500 --> 01:30:55,219
you know very far from being an Ivy

1830
01:31:01,930 --> 01:30:59,510
League type and he was interested in

1831
01:31:07,390 --> 01:31:01,940
fencing he became a championship

1832
01:31:09,310 --> 01:31:07,400
Ivy League fencer and he sort of adopted

1833
01:31:11,830 --> 01:31:09,320
what he called the Zen technique of

1834
01:31:14,049 --> 01:31:11,840
fencing from hypnosis he had learned

1835
01:31:16,330 --> 01:31:14,059
about concentrating the mind completely

1836
01:31:18,430 --> 01:31:16,340
on the present some of the hypnotic

1837
01:31:21,310 --> 01:31:18,440
conditions would take away the future

1838
01:31:22,209 --> 01:31:21,320
they would take away the past he had his

1839
01:31:24,430 --> 01:31:22,219
own past

1840
01:31:27,850 --> 01:31:24,440
lots of chunks of it just

1841
01:31:30,310 --> 01:31:27,860
locked out and obliterated it would have

1842
01:31:33,310 --> 01:31:30,320
made him a better defense er the whole

1843
01:31:36,640 --> 01:31:33,320
Zen technique of concentrating just on

1844
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:36,650
the president like a deer in the woods

1845
01:31:43,660 --> 01:31:39,530
that here's a rifle click mm-hmm and

1846
01:31:46,150 --> 01:31:43,670
nose it's threatened but the hypnotic

1847
01:31:50,200 --> 01:31:46,160
conditions came back to haunt him while

1848
01:31:52,360 --> 01:31:50,210
he was fencing in ways that that that

1849
01:31:54,250 --> 01:31:52,370
you know I don't want too many spoilers

1850
01:31:55,959 --> 01:31:54,260
you know to give away too much but you

1851
01:32:00,640 --> 01:31:55,969
know but just to say that these things

1852
01:32:03,220 --> 01:32:00,650
were destructive destructive to him so

1853
01:32:04,600 --> 01:32:03,230
yes there was that unraveling process I

1854
01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:04,610
think most of it happened in the first

1855
01:32:09,040 --> 01:32:06,770
couple of years I wanted to make this as

1856
01:32:12,130 --> 01:32:09,050
my first film when I finished at the

1857
01:32:15,220 --> 01:32:12,140
American Film Institute I had hoped this

1858
01:32:17,890 --> 01:32:15,230
would be my first production it wasn't

1859
01:32:21,850 --> 01:32:17,900
you know it's all these 50 years later

1860
01:32:26,229 --> 01:32:21,860
just about you know I'm 70 now I've made

1861
01:32:27,550 --> 01:32:26,239
you know like 11 films and you know the

1862
01:32:29,740 --> 01:32:27,560
first that there was Timothy Leary's

1863
01:32:34,030 --> 01:32:29,750
dead and starry night the artist and the

1864
01:32:36,070 --> 01:32:34,040
shaman and the sci-fi boys and Jesus and

1865
01:32:38,530 --> 01:32:36,080
India and the life after death project

1866
01:32:40,689 --> 01:32:38,540
and before we say goodbye and Marilyn

1867
01:32:43,780 --> 01:32:40,699
Monroe Declassified there's all these

1868
01:32:46,840 --> 01:32:43,790
different projects and Roswell many of

1869
01:32:50,530 --> 01:32:46,850
them controversial but I I couldn't get

1870
01:32:52,959 --> 01:32:50,540
this finished I couldn't get it made

1871
01:32:56,439 --> 01:32:52,969
why not finished yes there was

1872
01:32:58,209 --> 01:32:56,449
continuing blocking that made it hard to

1873
01:33:01,360 --> 01:32:58,219
tie it all up and make it a finished

1874
01:33:03,640 --> 01:33:01,370
package we finally did that last year it

1875
01:33:05,260 --> 01:33:03,650
was our number one on our bucket list we

1876
01:33:07,900 --> 01:33:05,270
said you know we're not kids anymore

1877
01:33:10,209 --> 01:33:07,910
is this gonna is this gonna die I

1878
01:33:12,610 --> 01:33:10,219
gathering dust in a drawer blowing

1879
01:33:15,400 --> 01:33:12,620
America's mind or are we going to finish

1880
01:33:16,900 --> 01:33:15,410
it and release it to the world so now

1881
01:33:19,510 --> 01:33:16,910
Tim we've released it to the world

1882
01:33:21,550 --> 01:33:19,520
anybody can find it on Amazon you can

1883
01:33:24,390 --> 01:33:21,560
find it as a printed book you can find

1884
01:33:27,520 --> 01:33:24,400
it as a Kindle book you can find it as a

1885
01:33:29,770 --> 01:33:27,530
PDF file or any other kind of ebook

1886
01:33:31,780 --> 01:33:29,780
reader it's out there and it's out in

1887
01:33:33,370 --> 01:33:31,790
other countries maybe not the printed

1888
01:33:35,290 --> 01:33:33,380
book in other countries but I go online

1889
01:33:36,640 --> 01:33:35,300
and I see wow they've got it in Japan

1890
01:33:37,870 --> 01:33:36,650
they've got it in England they've got in

1891
01:33:41,140 --> 01:33:37,880
Australia

1892
01:33:42,850 --> 01:33:41,150
I see websites with talking about

1893
01:33:44,290 --> 01:33:42,860
blowing America's mind and it's all in

1894
01:33:46,810 --> 01:33:44,300
other language and I don't even know

1895
01:33:48,090 --> 01:33:46,820
what the language is so we've done the

1896
01:33:52,209 --> 01:33:48,100
job of putting it out there to the world

1897
01:33:56,080 --> 01:33:52,219
now we need the response from the world

1898
01:33:58,000 --> 01:33:56,090
to take a look you know have the

1899
01:34:00,610 --> 01:33:58,010
experience read it we've worked so hard

1900
01:34:02,979 --> 01:34:00,620
to get it to you you know it's at your

1901
01:34:07,270 --> 01:34:02,989
fingertips so that's my pitch tonight

1902
01:34:09,010 --> 01:34:07,280
that's why I that's a good pitch and I'm

1903
01:34:11,020 --> 01:34:09,020
and I'm glad you got the book out there

1904
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:11,030
and unfortunately we're almost out of

1905
01:34:16,510 --> 01:34:13,810
time so I want to give you guys just a

1906
01:34:18,910 --> 01:34:16,520
real quick chance to let our listeners

1907
01:34:21,100 --> 01:34:18,920
know a little bit more about you know

1908
01:34:24,520 --> 01:34:21,110
where they can find out about you olav

1909
01:34:28,390 --> 01:34:24,530
I'll start with you pretty much

1910
01:34:30,939 --> 01:34:28,400
everything is a paranoia magazine.com do

1911
01:34:33,899 --> 01:34:30,949
you have any new projects that are

1912
01:34:36,490 --> 01:34:33,909
coming out that we should watch out for

1913
01:34:40,240 --> 01:34:36,500
yeah apparently a publishing just

1914
01:34:42,490 --> 01:34:40,250
released a new geoengineering book it's

1915
01:34:46,180 --> 01:34:42,500
a series of articles written by Clyde

1916
01:34:49,240 --> 01:34:46,190
Lewis we're still going to we have an

1917
01:34:51,160 --> 01:34:49,250
issue that's near complete that we need

1918
01:34:53,669 --> 01:34:51,170
to get out it's been your complete for a

1919
01:34:57,220 --> 01:34:53,679
while we got sidetracked on other stuff

1920
01:34:59,350 --> 01:34:57,230
we're doing some some books that are

1921
01:35:02,260 --> 01:34:59,360
that are kind of collections of articles

1922
01:35:04,300 --> 01:35:02,270
about various topics we released one on

1923
01:35:06,100 --> 01:35:04,310
cover space warfare which was a

1924
01:35:08,649 --> 01:35:06,110
collection of articles written in

1925
01:35:11,050 --> 01:35:08,659
paranoia about you know covert space

1926
01:35:12,879 --> 01:35:11,060
operations and other things so we're

1927
01:35:13,660 --> 01:35:12,889
always kind of you always have a few

1928
01:35:15,959 --> 01:35:13,670
irons in the fire

1929
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:15,969
we're bringing the podcast back Oh

1930
01:35:23,470 --> 01:35:19,610
fantastic all right okay and Paul what's

1931
01:35:25,300 --> 01:35:23,480
the what's the website for America's

1932
01:35:28,390 --> 01:35:25,310
mind yeah it's easy to remember it's

1933
01:35:30,820 --> 01:35:28,400
blowing America's mind calm and that's a

1934
01:35:34,479 --> 01:35:30,830
good center for additional information

1935
01:35:36,820 --> 01:35:34,489
about mind control psychedelic research

1936
01:35:39,640 --> 01:35:36,830
today it's kind of our central

1937
01:35:43,740 --> 01:35:39,650
headquarters an hour around our new book

1938
01:35:47,590 --> 01:35:43,750
but also paul davids calm as my movies

1939
01:35:51,860 --> 01:35:47,600
paul davids - artists calm or go to the

1940
01:35:53,660 --> 01:35:51,870
internet movie database imdb.com

1941
01:35:56,660 --> 01:35:53,670
David's you can track all my different

1942
01:35:58,190 --> 01:35:56,670
films alright well gentlemen thank you

1943
01:35:59,990 --> 01:35:58,200
very much for being with us tonight on

1944
01:36:02,450 --> 01:36:00,000
exploring the bazaar as always a

1945
01:36:04,730 --> 01:36:02,460
fascinating program and to everyone out

1946
01:36:11,259 --> 01:36:04,740
there thank you for listening and we'll

1947
01:36:17,020 --> 01:36:13,479
you've been listening to exploring the

1948
01:36:20,229 --> 01:36:17,030
bazaar with hosts Timothy Beckley and

1949
01:36:22,509 --> 01:36:20,239
team Swartz they're taking back the

1950
01:36:25,060 --> 01:36:22,519
night by jetting non-stop across the

1951
01:36:28,359 --> 01:36:25,070
cosmos in search of the truly bizarre

1952
01:36:29,979 --> 01:36:28,369
and totally unexplained with you as

1953
01:36:32,520 --> 01:36:29,989
their combined

1954
01:36:37,000 --> 01:36:32,530
Thursday nights at 7:00 p.m. Pacific

1955
01:36:37,780 --> 01:36:37,010
10:00 p.m. Eastern on the K cor digital

1956
01:36:40,790 --> 01:36:37,790
radio

1957
01:36:43,880 --> 01:36:40,800
for more information on exploring the

1958
01:36:46,370 --> 01:36:43,890
bazaars and hosts Timothy Beckley and

1959
01:36:49,580 --> 01:36:46,380
Tim Swartz check out their kco our

1960
01:36:55,910 --> 01:36:49,590
digital radio network follow their

1961
01:37:05,170 --> 01:36:55,920
YouTube channel @m r UFO 1100 exploring